Swing arm alignment

rob f · February 08, 2018, 08:37:45 AM

Sorry for the "primate" thing Pete. Couldn't resist the temptation.
Used that line on an englishman I worked with about 10 years ago. He called me a "Tosser"
I'm sure that didn't mean "friend".
Of course we were just having us some fun and we still get along fine .

Appreciate the tips on the swing arm and grease fittings.

Rob ( the "Tosser") F.

Pete · February 08, 2018, 04:02:29 AM

Quote from: Tfrank59 on February 07, 2018, 10:57:09 AM
So if you make friends is it "mating"?

Oooook!

Tfrank59 · February 07, 2018, 10:57:09 AM

So if you make friends is it "mating"?

Pete · February 07, 2018, 08:54:07 AM

Quote from: rob f on February 06, 2018, 18:39:42 PM

Oh and bye the bye.. If your friends are "mates", then is your best friend a "Primate"?
Just wonderin'
Rob

Oook.

rob f · February 06, 2018, 18:39:42 PM

Makes sense now that you pointed it out about spacing to compensate for the sprocket and drive chain.
Similar repair on the zerks. Took out the uni trac then the bushings,retaped the messed up threads and put in allen head set screws to flush. Good tip on the teflon tape as I think that you are right on the straight not tapered threads.
Not sure what a top-hat bush is. Must be foreigner talk.
Oh and bye the bye.. If your friends are "mates", then is your best friend a "Primate"?
Just wonderin'
Rob

Pete · February 06, 2018, 11:17:13 AM

The broken grease-nipple problem (that's zerks to you chaps):
Find a mate with a lathe. Get him to bore out the holes and make press fit top-hat bushes and loctite them in. The grease-nipple thread is M6, and it's a bit difficult to tell, but they look like a parallel thread to me, although I could be wrong.
When your mate-with-a-lathe makes the top-hat bushes get him to tap them M6 thru, but to relieve the first two threads.

I only fit the grease-nipples when I'm doing the greasing, otherwise I fit button-head Allen-bolts to blank off the holes. (I fit them using PTFE plumbers' tape which helps prevent corrosion and acts as a thread locking device).

Pete · February 06, 2018, 10:59:19 AM

Yup.
Using the tyre walls to gauge from (it's snowing here and too damn cold in my garage to roll about on a concrete floor with a rule in my hand):
The rear tyre wall is close to the swinging-arm right-hand leg.
The gap between the rear tyre left-hand wall and the left-hand leg of the swinging-arm is much greater - because it has to accommodate the width of the chain plus a clearance either side.
Moral: If your swinging arm is symmetrical with the frame - it's broken!

Pete · February 06, 2018, 10:39:12 AM

If you think about it there is no reason for the swinging-arm to be symmetrical. The swinging-arm pivot must be perpendicular to the bike's long axis and the rear wheel must align with the front wheel, but other than that there is no constraint on symmetry.
The rear wheel has the sprocket & chain and the cush-drive arrangements on the left, but only the brake-disc on the right, so from my armchair I would expect to see the left-hand leg of the swinging-arm kick out more then the right-hand leg.
I'm now going to pop out to the garage and see if that's right.

rob f · February 04, 2018, 08:32:21 AM

Thought the same thing myself, about that bolt gouging into the frame. Unlike us ( mechanics machinists, equipment operators) , some people do not have a clue about how things work or even care. I suppose we were all clueless to start with but there is something called "common sense" that should be inherent to all.
R

CDNRatMan · February 03, 2018, 21:00:37 PM

Rob had a bit of time today and so was sitting and looking at the bike and was thinking about your gouge........I am wondering how the PO did not hear or feel it.........I know my bike and when I have issues I can feel it or hear it. When I had the issue with my chain I first felt it in the floorboards and then after it got worse I could hear it on shifting........something digging into the frame should have been felt right off the bat......

CDNRatMan · February 03, 2018, 13:30:27 PM

Rob understand your issues and so here to make you feel better, 42 years in the CF as a Heavy Equipment Operator by trade, but then the last 22 as a Sr NCO doing desk jobs, no formal mechanical training, none whatsoever, learned it from watching and helping veh techs, and youtube. So bought my Drifter and with this forum and my buddies GreenBarn, Troll and 49 Reo I tried everything. The first winter I tore Red down and put her back....well that first ride I was waiting for something to fall off....lol.......
I have ridden my bike from Winnipeg to North Bay along Hwy #1 and #11 so both parts of the Trans Canada at the legal speed and somewhat over that limit and with the 18/38 sprocket swap I can run at 130km all day and never have a hiccup.....this machine is fantastic at what the 800 can do......

Glad I can be of service to all of you and gald the pictures helped.

Tfrank59 · February 03, 2018, 11:03:39 AM

Quote from: rob f on February 03, 2018, 10:23:24 AM
Thanks RM & VP. Pics are great and RM hope that you didn't strain your milk on trying to get the measurements for me. Owe you guys beers next time you roll by.
Now I know that my bike is "normal" I can get that rear end all back together. Was worried about drive alignment and tire dog tracking and so forth.
Always fretting about mechanical issues is my Mechanic's curse. There has been many a time that I slacked off on the throttle on a nice stretch just because the little man in my head was thinking.... is the master chain link clip ok,are the tire beads holding, are the brake pads going to bind and lock up the wheel.? And have you seen the size of those tiny wheel bearings? About the same size as the front bearing of a Delco alternator.
Takes all the fun outta riding.
Should see me when i'm sitting in a plane

Well I'm a machinist but you just got to learn to relax and go with it bud. You can have you know seismic activity and the ground might open up in front of you and swallow you alive but you know what you going to do? Just take whatever comes at you. And prayer helps haha

Vulcanpunch · February 03, 2018, 10:49:56 AM

Quote from: rob f on February 03, 2018, 10:23:24 AM
Should see me when i'm sitting in a plane

Hahaha as an airplane mechanic I can relate.

rob f · February 03, 2018, 10:23:24 AM

Thanks RM & VP. Pics are great and RM hope that you didn't strain your milk on trying to get the measurements for me. Owe you guys beers next time you roll by.
Now I know that my bike is "normal" I can get that rear end all back together. Was worried about drive alignment and tire dog tracking and so forth.
Always fretting about mechanical issues is my Mechanic's curse. There has been many a time that I slacked off on the throttle on a nice stretch just because the little man in my head was thinking.... is the master chain link clip ok,are the tire beads holding, are the brake pads going to bind and lock up the wheel.? And have you seen the size of those tiny wheel bearings? About the same size as the front bearing of a Delco alternator.
Takes all the fun outta riding.
Should see me when i'm sitting in a plane

Vulcanpunch · February 02, 2018, 22:13:58 PM

Awesome pictures Ratman. Thanks to you I was able to dry fit my swing arm and take measurements on mine to try and compare if this in fact normal and not a mis alignment on Rob's bike.(Disclaimer, mine is a normal 800 frame with a Drifter swing arm) The measurements on the left are smaller then the right. I think you are fine Rob.

CDNRatMan · February 02, 2018, 21:12:43 PM

ok so need to get the point of the lower bolt holes for the seat bracket.......ok really hard Rob to take pictures when alone and needing to hold a ruler in place, I need to grow another arm. Ok these are at the location of the lower bolt holes of the sear bracket. You are right the chain side does seem to be farther over then the other side.

CDNRatMan · February 02, 2018, 18:40:35 PM

I'll do that for you asap. For sure by this time tomorrow.......

rob f · February 02, 2018, 18:18:30 PM

Thanks for the pics but only one sorta gives me an idea and it does look like the left side is closer.
Ok , I will be more specific. The top bar on the swing arm..... go about 6"" down the down tubes. Right across from the lower bolt hole of the seat mounting bracket. Use this description and the picture I posted and you should see the area i'm talking about.
Mine is closer to frame on the left by about 1/2"? Kinda looks like yours is also, but hard to tell. If yours is the same then I can quit sweating it. Appreciate the effort of verification.
R

CDNRatMan · February 02, 2018, 16:08:30 PM

here is the other 4...

CDNRatMan · February 02, 2018, 16:06:08 PM

Ok know what you are talking about now, it is tight but it is doable without any mods. I find that this area does get clogged a lot with goop and shit........

ok got your pictures of the swing arm, now I took my 18" ruker and slide it up tight to the frame and left it there for all the pictures.I will post the pictures there is 8 of them and all taken from the rear of the bike. If you want anything different then just ask and I will take then asap as I am feeling really good today.....

rob f · February 01, 2018, 09:28:54 AM

Directly above the front sprocket, slid in the engine casting is a curved square (2x2") plug. Not exactly sure of what it does. The parts catalogue calls it a grommet. My old school education taught me that grommets are rubber and this is made of a hard plastic like material which we called bakelite back in the days of the old 2 cylinder Johnny Poppers. New terminology is HDPE.

OBTW... Here is the online Oem parts catalog that I use:

https://www.kawasakipartsnation.com/oemparts/l/kaw/500b077ff870023ba4c1e868/2001-vulcan-800-drifter-vn800-e1-parts
R

CDNRatMan · January 31, 2018, 20:43:26 PM

Ok so I can do that for you in the morning. I'll get the pictures with a ruler if I can.

What bakelite plug are we talking about? I never did anything to my bike when I installed the 18T sprocket on Red, now when I do Pearl this winter I'll have to pay attention........

rob f · January 31, 2018, 18:10:26 PM

Checked everything for play but all ok, nothing worn.
Thanks for the offer of pics but measurements would be better. Basically can stick my finger between the right swingarm tube and frame but only about half that on the left. Just let me know if yours are even on both sides or offset to the left. Don't think that anything is bent but maybe
it's the design or the frame jig was out at the factory. Doesn't appear to have caused any issues to the drive. Chain tighteners are evenly matched and the old sprockets seemed alright. They are getting changed to the 18/38 set up. Not a ton of room between the bakelite plug and top of chain links on the front 18 tooth sprocket. Took the leading inside edge of the plug and ground it to a taper just incase.

CDNRatMan · January 31, 2018, 11:31:14 AM

Rob if you wait a bit I have my rear wheel off and I can take some pictures for you. I can also check the play in that area......

And an FYI that part with the zerk fittings I also have an issue with it being damaged, the zerk fittings broken off, I was thinking of doing what you did but also checked at the local dealer and that part is about $150.00 new.......so once I get into it I'll see what I am going to do......so pictures of rear swing arm and such after physio.......

Tfrank59 · January 31, 2018, 10:11:36 AM

Well I went out to the garage and tried to get the same shot you have posted but my swing arm bag blocks everything so I can't tell you at this point how close the swingarm is to the frame on my bike. Sorry I'm not more help.