1999 1500 Clutch Spring Options, Plate Thickness

[pcarrell]

Win, win!

[Bucko]

Forgot to mention...

The clutch slip that I started to experience (which prompted the swapping in of new spring and plates) is gone.

And, the grabiness of the clutch which had been getting worse for about a year is completely gone.

[Bucko]

Hi PC:

It's actually a pretty simple job although a bit time consuming, at least the first time, and even more time consuming if you have to do it twice 

[pcarrell]

Glad it worked out for you!

It's not an impossible job, but it is involved, huh?

[Bucko]

Updadate: I put in the new clutch spring.  Here are some observations:

• The instructions linked above don't provide any details on how to install the updated 2 piece spring holder.  The orientation of the parts is not really obvious by looking at the parts themselves but according to the parts fiche, the new piece: the 'crown washer' fits flat side against the spring side of the holder flange with the 'crown' points facing towards the spring (the crown points fit into the grooves on the spring).
• The 'teeth' on my spring were definitely worn but they were still intact (not really clear why the spring is designed with 'teeth').  I'm surprised the teeth would wear so much simply by flexing of the spring - my theory is that it's not flexing that causes the wear in the spring, it's the holder (or the spring) spinning against each other that causes the wear.  Assuming this is correct, the new two piece design should fix the problem as the 'crown' ring will spin on the larger holder preventing wear in the spring. (It's just a theory).
• There is very little visible difference between the old one piece holder and the new similar part from the 2 piece version except the spring side flange is thinner on the two piece version - makes sense since the addition of the crown washer part in the 2 piece version makes up for the thinner flange and leaves the spring in roughly the original position.  I wish I had actually made some measurements because I think a guy with a lathe could simply make the new holder by trimming down the flange thickness on the original part and adding the crown washer., or a beefier clutch may be had by simply adding the crown washer to the original holder as it would put more pre-tension on the spring.
• As others have pointed out, an impact driver definitely makes the removal of the 27mm clutch nut easy - there was no fuss or difficulties.
• I was hoping to get away without a new engine cover gasket but the old one tore in several places so it had to be replaced (I had one ready to go).
• I ended up changing the fiber plates even though they measured thicker than the new OEM plates that went in (even though the new ones were well soaked in oil).  Kind of baffling.  I thought about putting the originals back in but then thought better of it.  I'll keep the old plates as spares (for now but will probably toss them soon).
• Getting the frame piece back together was a bit of a grunt.  The first time I did it, I need to use a floor jack.  The second time I realized I could screw the lower two bolts into position, then use an socket extension in one of the upper two bolt holes to 'pull' the frame into aliment close enough to allow the second upper bolt to be put in place and tightened, allowing the other upper bolt to then be put in.
• Here's a couple of tips:(one of which is mentioned in one of the descriptions on how to replace the spring) do a better-than-good job of cleaning out the groove that holds the big 'C' retainer.  I apparently didn't clean the groove out well enough (the first time) and when I put everything (and I mean everything) back together and pulled the clutch the first time, I head a 'ping' inside the engine  .  I had to tear it all apart again where I found the free range retainer, cleaned the grove out again and put it all back together again.  So, the second tip is: test your clutch release once you get the clutch basket reassembled and before you bolt the case cover back on.
• The second time I did the job, it took only 1 1/2 hrs from start to finish (mind you, I didn't have to scrape off the old gasket which did take some time in the initial attempt)
• Clutch is working fine now but I can't feel any difference in the 'pull' at the lever so if the replacement spring is beefier, it's not by much.
• The toughest part of the entire job was unscrewing the dam brake light switch, not as easy as it sounds and I had to pull it out and put it back twice. 

[Troll]

No, that's 163,000 KILOMETERS. 101500 miles as of yesterday. I would imagine that you should be able to see the spring problem with careful inspection. A clutch only wears when it's disengaged.

[Bucko]

Hey Troll:

I'm not convinced my clutch is worn out - at least in terms of the fiber plates - I just wanted to have a set on hand in case they need to be replaced when I go in to replace the spring.  It seems that lots of early Vulcan 1500's (prior to 04 or 05 - memory fails me at this point) came equipped with a weaker spring design which was prone to premature wear out (at a lot less than the 70k that I have).  Based on my slipping clutch symptoms and what I've read on line, I'm pretty sure my spring is buggered.  I'll measure up the fibre plates when I have the clutch apart but if they're not close to being out of spec, I'm not going to change them.  On the other hand, if they're close to being out of spec or out of spec, it makes sense to change them while I'm in there.

I've been pretty gentle on the, now old, girl -  aside from getting to and from the nearest highway, that 70k kms is almost entirely one up highway riding (I managed to squeeze 38k kms on my last rear tire and still hadn't hit the wear bars - could have easily got another 2k out of it) so ideally, my fibre plates will still have life in them and will be going back in.

It's good to hear you have 163k (and that's miles, right?) on your clutch.  That's a good sign for mine.   I"ll post the results of my investigation but for now, I'm waiting for the new plates to come in (which are back ordered - of course) before I dig in.  I'd like to peforma the operation in one go but if the plates are delayed to much I may have to risk going head without them (which may, as per your experience) not be much of a risk.

[Troll]

I currently have 163,000 K on my original clutch....what am I doing you're not, or more to the point, what made you're clutch wear so quickly?

[Bucko]

Thanks PC:

I ended up ordering a set of OEM fibre plates as the price was attractive (relative to other options - about half the cost of Barnett) and the original OEM clutch lasted 70k Kms before slipping (and the fibre plates might still be all right but I'm pretty sure the spring is buggered).

[pcarrell]

I've heard good stuff about the Barnett plates, but I haven't used them personally.

[Bucko]

Me again.  I went to the shop today and got all my parts lined up for the clutch rebuild.  I thought it would be wise to ensure I had all the correct parts and good thing I did as I found out I was sent the wrong Vesrah clutch fiber plates (they sent ones for a VN800).

So I have to re-order the fiber plates (just in case I need them) and thought I'd take this opportunity to solicit opinions on which are the best fiber plates to use these day, i.e. OEM, Vesrah, Barnett, EBC, Ferodo, etc.  Let me know your thoughts/experience.  Thanks.

[Bucko]

Thanks C.

[chief]

Yes the http://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/clutchspringreplacement.html page are the instructions.

The top 75% of that page are the instructions. The lower 25% was for the Judge's washer install. I have revised the page and made the Judge's washer thing a separate page.

[Bucko]

Hi Chief:

Did some searching but couldn't find clarity on this...hoping you can offer some advice.

I bought the upgraded clutch spring parts listed in the table here: http://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/clutchparts.html for use in my 01, 1500 Drifter (which just started slipping badly on the weekend).

Do you know if there a description of the install for these upgraded parts, as opposed to the install for the 'Judges' washers option - if there is one -, I can't seem to find it -  or does the install detailed in the following link cover it: http://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/clutchspringreplacement.html

[chief]

Have manual--don't have access to it per the OP.  Looking through the online version that is stickied at the top of the forum now.

I'll assume the clutch plates are OK and just switch out the friction plates.

You're telling me to "look at the link provided."  This link (http://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/clutchparts.html) says to use 92144-1394 clutch spring for my 1999 1500.  You used the "current" spring (92144-1295).

No, you don't want to use the original spring and holder... you want to UPGRADE  - use the parts listed at the top of that page. The original part has been superseded, so use the newest one. And, you use the TWO holders. This spring and holder combination should resolve the weak spring issue we had on all early 1500's.  The colored chart simply shows the evolution of the spring plate/holders for the 1500.

This page may be of more help. There is a section on Judge's washers... that was an upgrade before KAW re-engineered the spring and holders. Some people like that mod, I didn't think it necessary and didn't do it. Same with using a 2004 MS spring... not needed now, in my opinion.
http://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/clutchspringreplacement.html
You should always measure the clutch package after replacing the friction plates to ensure it is still within specs. Usually it will be, but best to check. If you have to, you replace a steel plate with an undersize or oversize plate depending upon the thickness you got.

[jkpq45]

I'd look in the Clymer manual but I lent it to my mechanic (cousin) who currently has my Drifter in pieces on the floor of his shop :-)

Have manual--don't have access to it per the OP.  Looking through the online version that is stickied at the top of the forum now.

I'll assume the clutch plates are OK and just switch out the friction plates.

You're telling me to "look at the link provided."  This link (http://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/clutchparts.html) says to use 92144-1394 clutch spring for my 1999 1500.  You used the "current" spring (92144-1295). 

[chief]

GET A MANUAL!

There is no substitute for a manual. Look at the link provided.
The current spring is what the Kaw engineers are putting in ALL 1500/1600 vulcans... and has been for a while. That is what I have in mine (with updated holders).
You can look up and review the various types of friction plates to determine which is best for you. I used the barnett friction plates and didn't need to change out the steel plates. The friction plates are the same size as far as I remember. The steel plates are all the same size, with one plate used to get the right package thickness... undersize, standard, and oversize.
Again, do yourself a favor and get a manual. They are usually about $40-50.

[jkpq45]

Are the cork-aluminum friction plates good?  Are fiber ones better?  What is the best?

How many clutch plates of 13089A/B do I need?  One of each?  Which thickness--looks like there are three options?

What about 92145-1243, of which Partzilla says I need 10 ea.?

[chief]

Personally, I went with the current spring and upgraded to two holders. I replaced the FRICTION plates only. You need to measure the complete package to ensure it is within specs. You have the link to the parts listing and info.

[pcarrell]

This should answer some of your questions: http://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/clutchspringreplacement.html

[jkpq45]

Clutch problems with my 1999 1500 Drifter... torn down for fixin'.  Could use your help--comments appreciated.

1.  I see some use clutch spring 92144-1934 (early Mean Streaks), some 92144-1295 (2005+ Mean Streaks).  Is one stronger?

2.  Planning on upgrading to dual holders (13280-1306 and 13280-1307).

3.  I understand there are 8 friction plates (13088)--are the cork-aluminum ones good?  Are fiber ones better?  What is the best?

4.  How many clutch plates of 13089A/B do I need?  One of each?  Which thickness--looks like there are three options?

5.  What about 92145-1243, of which Partzilla says I need 10 ea.?

I'd look in the Clymer manual but I lent it to my mechanic (cousin) who currently has my Drifter in pieces on the floor of his shop :-)