Front tire wear

[greenbarn]

Thanks Troll and now the sarcasm has travelled over GB's head...lol..........

yea, a lot of stuff goes over my head....   

[CDNRatMan]

  very good read, thanks.

[Troll]

OK...so here it is. and I have seen it in person: http://blog.unsafemotorcycles.com/2010/08/dunlop-402-among-array-of-problem.html

[CDNRatMan]

 Thanks Troll and now the sarcasm has travelled over GB's head...lol..........

[greenbarn]

One would think that people in the tire industry would sell only good tires and not garbage, taking money from the poor people who want to be safe and ride on decent tires and they get sold crap tires that fail, that is so wrong.........

I think, in general, companies try to put out a quality product (at least the bigger more reputable companies).  I mean face it, if they sold nothing but junk, their customer base would dwindle pretty fast.  However, in ANY manufacturing process, there is variation - one of the keys to controlling quality is to control this variation as much as possible.  In any process, there will be some bad product based on variation in the process, in the raw materials, etc.  Can't be avoided.  These lawsuits Troll mentioned are a result, more than likely, of some of these defects.  The tire manufacturers have a financial liability for the defects when somebody gets hurt.

But no matter what, you're always going to have defects in any manufacturing process.  The only way to NOT have ANY defects would be 100% testing - test every piece to failure to make sure there are no defects.   Then of course, there would be no product to sell...

[Troll]

One would think that people in the tire industry would sell only good tires and not garbage, taking money from the poor people who want to be safe and ride on decent tires and they get sold crap tires that fail, that is so wrong.........

I'm involved with 2 law suites related to this very issue. You can google motorcycle tire failures and get the idea.

[CDNRatMan]

      One would think that people in the tire industry would sell only good tires and not garbage, taking money from the poor people who want to be safe and ride on decent tires and they get sold crap tires that fail, that is so wrong.........

[greenbarn]

Could just be the tire, too.  Sometimes a tire just wears bad.  When you put the new tire on, keep a close eye on it to see what it does.  If there is a wear problem, hopefully you'll catch it early.

[kw-retrorider]

O.K. so I took measurements on both sides to check the rear wheel. I went to the swing axle on both sides and then to the first triangular cover on each side....so a shorter distance. I am square on both sides; and the marks on the frame are in the same place on both sides. So, I'm satisfied the rear wheel is centered.

The bike tracks straight. At least I can't detect any pull either way coming downhill on a straight road and loosening my grip or taking both hands completely off the handle bars.

Checked in at the dealer just for fun. They had no revelations even after looking at it, but agreed I needed a front tire (duh!). They considered 7500 miles on a Dunlop 404 pretty good, and said it's the tire they sell the most of.

So no progress in my mind. After we get some input from Ratman on how his valves look, I may be taking my machine in for valves, so will put another front tire on and let them check the rear wheel alignment. Weather has just gone below freezing, so no riding this week.

[kw-retrorider]

I can't disagree with you Troll....I'll get back to you once I have taken some measurements.

[Troll]

I fixed your link...rattlebars, not bats! I dunno, the road crown on some of our rural roads is pretty damn steep... I read this before, and the big thing I come away with is more about which way you turn more frequently!. I taught Rider Ed. fro 32 years, and 75% of people have difficulty with right turns.  Lefts come more easily for them, and that coupled with the side of the road we ride on would make a certain amount of sense, except that in all my riding, with many types of bikes, the only time I have experienced this kind of thing was with an old Honda with a tweaked frame....ALIGNMENT!!!!! Alignment effects fuel mileage, too!

[kw-retrorider]

Greenbarn - Thanks for your view on this. I will take some measurements and let you guys know. Based on what you said, then if I let both hands off the handlebars the bike shouldn't track straight. To be honest, I think it does, but will check that too.

Troll - Coming off the W650, I was surprised to find out how nimble the 800 is if you give it a  chance. Because it's not heavy and has that mono-shock, once I got comfortable on a regular run,  I slowly increased speed. I will say, you have to push the handlebars down on the 800 compared to the W650, because your center of gravity is more aft and down, but the 800 is no slouch in turns. A nicely balanced machine....so yeah, I won't say I ride it hard, but the road dirt pattern does comes up over the edges on both sides.

Appreciate the input....I'll keep working this. As they say....what's usually wrong is the last thing you touched. I've been doing the chain adjustments, so need to check if the rear wheel is out. Just like the chain tension......I went back and double checked after all the posts and stayed with what I had done.....now to check the rear wheel alignment.

Did either of you guys check out that link on left side tire wear?..."it's never the crown"...truth or fiction?

[Troll]

Well, it's not flattened out in the middle, so you must do some cornering....I wish I had a buck for every tire I've seen that has been run interstate only and have a significant squared off appearance.

[greenbarn]

Agree with Troll on the uneven front tire wear - If the back axle is aligned "off center" the rear tire doesn't know it.  The tire just turns on the axle, with the thrust from the chain transferred to the tire - always 90deg. from the axis of the axle - regardless of alignment with the bike chassis.  So it would have to be WAY off to affect rear tire wear.  On the other hand, if the rear axle is SLIGHTLY off, it pushes the rear chassis to the side SLIGHTLY, and then you have to SLIGHTLY turn the forks (or lean the bike) to keep the chassis pointed straight down the road.  Now the front tire axle axis is SLIGHTLY out-of-square with the direction of travel.  SO now, your effectively DRAGGING the tire sideways a bit.  It doesn't take very much.  This relationship of the front wheel axle to the road (direction of travel) is analogous to a car's wheel alignment - camber and toe-in.  Believe me, it doesn't take very much variance in toe-in to cause a tire wear problem.  For example a car should have approx 1/16" toe in.  An extra 1/8" will cause a pretty significant tire wear issue.

[kw-retrorider]

Troll: Because you asked, here are some shots of the back tire. Looks good to me. What say you?

[Troll]

I'm thinking you wouldn't see an odd pattern on the rear, since you are trying to correct the tracking by deflecting the front. Mixing tire types and construction are a no no. but replacing the front with something that wears better, and has the same type of construction shouldn't be too much of an issue. The big thing I can see is the tire profile has been altered by wear. Putting a new tire on the front might not make any difference, but I'd really like to see the profile of the rear. If it's flattened out in the center and getting car like, it could lead to a stability problem. A harder front tire, just for the sake of argument, will limit your braking traction, and could effect your cornering. I got my W with Avons on it. I replaced the front with a Metzeler ME33 Lazer and the rear with an ME55 Metronic, world of difference. The ME55 didn't last very long, so now I have a Conti-Go on the rear, and it's doing just fine...now I can drag the hero knobs without making the chassis unstable or sliding across a turn....Just a thought...check the build date on the tire...old tires can wear unpredictably.

[kw-retrorider]

Troll: Thanks for your comments. Yeah, can't say I'm thrilled about this and was surprised to find it as I was planning winter work. For perspective, the rear tire has a solid 4/32 + in the center of the tire. So expect I would have gone at least one more season of about 3000 or so miles. Not as good as you Michelins, but closer to 10 or 12k miles. Dealer at the time said..."if you're riding alone, you should be fine....I think I want to chat with him again.
- My first thought is the tires are soft and I want to go to something harder.....any harm in mixing tire brands and putting something firmer on the front? (If I have to, I'll change both)
- Second, I will take some independent measurements as you suggest....but if the back wheel was off, wouldn't there be an odd wear pattern on it too? There is not, it is even and on center.
- Third, on the chain....I have been doing it myself (you will recall the proper measuring of slack and now coming up tighter with the adjustment), but I have not been using the marks on the frame. The Kawi dealer put the tires on and I usually take up the same amount of flats on each side....of course that assumes it was right when the dealer did it.

BTW, I do the W650 myself too and have driven about the same amount of miles.....no odd or premature wear on the W.....but it's a W....ya know....just sayin'

Thanks again...I knew you'd have something to say....have read many of your posts on tires...anyone else?

[Troll]

I have about 14,000 on my Michelins, with even wear all across the tire, and a lot less wear than you have. In that mileage, it has worn only 2/32 of an inch. I ride hard, and I ride fast....and do 1,000 mile days, so if there were going to be problems, I would find them. Here are a couple of pictures. I, too run 28 psi. You could almost say I was obsessive about tire maintenance...With the pictures you posted, I can see 2 possible problems. One, and perhaps the least likely one, would be severely crowned roads in your area, or perhaps a constant prevailing wind...the second would be rear wheel alignment. I would suspect that as a probable cause. Most people use the little marks on the swing arm to adjust the chain. That works ok as long as they are accurate. My preference would be to measure the axle to swing arm pivot distance, and either remark the swing arm, or find some way to measure from a point that is REALLY the same on both sides. I use a caliper to measure the distance on my W-650....my Drifter has no adjustment. Notice, in the second picture how the tread profile has not changed since new. I put these on a year ago last August. Depending on what they look like by July, I may replace them before next Drift-In....I'm estimating them to have about 20,000 by then.

[kw-retrorider]

Could not find any discussion on this, so starting a new topic.

I ride solo and am running Dunlop D404 tires front and rear. They were installed new two years ago. The rear tire is fine....even wear, plenty of tread depth. The front tire has off center (to the left) wear that is down to the tread marks or less. Mileage is only about 7,000 miles. I am good about keeping 28psi front and rear in tires per the manuals. There are no other handling issues.

Read a good article about this off-center wear at www.rattlebars.com/tirewear/index.html

That said, apparently this type of wear is common on cruisers. This is my first Drifter:
- Has anyone else had this type of tire wear on the front?
- Is this short amount of service life normal for the these bottom of the line Dunlops?
- Thought rear tires wear first because of weight distribution?
- Aside from putting another Dunlop on the front to keep the tire characteristics matched....can I put another brand on the front, like the Metz 880 you guys  seem to have good luck with, or must the front and rear be matched?

Happy to received any thoughts on this. Photos included.