POOR performance, excessive fuel consumption

[chief]

Keep us advised, please.

Good luck.

[1SG CAV]

Thanks Chief, I emailed the test procedure to my mechanic. I even save it to my files for the next time something goes wrong. You've been a great help, THANK YOU.
MAybe now My ride will run

[chief]

The FI light goes out after a couple of seconds once the bike is started. If it stays on while the bike is running, there is a problem with the ECU or one of its sensors. Read the following... the whole page.

http://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/ECUFaultCodes.html

There IS a FI problem.

[griz01]

Since the FI Led is on; What code is store?

[1SG CAV]

This is an update on my dilemma with my ride. The mechanic checked all sensors "NO problems" , tested the ECU "NO problems" The FI LED is on bike won't idle now. Haven't been able to get it dyno'd. The RPMs change continuously. The good thing he won't give up, he will not be outsmarted by a machine. He's not even charging me for have the time. Bad thing is I still don't have my ride         Chief I gave him the list you posted. but everything checked out. Any more Ideas........ I really want my ride.... I'm having withdrawals

[chief]

What AO said... forgot about the pcIII location.

[annieoakley]

If it's a PCIII, it will be located in the tool storage. If it's a cobra FI it will be under the seat.

[chief]

Take off the seat... if there is a box closest to the left side its probably a FI add-on box. You can lift it out to see which kind... its should have pots on it to adjust the settings as well.

[SoLowCholo]

Actually I may have misspoken. I actually may have an add on FI box and I don't know it lol, for this is the way in which I purchased it (used). So he may have put that on there, I haven't cracked into it to even see or even begin to look at it. Any help on identifying the FI box would be greatly appreciated. I was just speaking in regards to the absence of a power commander with the Hyper intake. I am a complete noob when it comes to the 1500 engine, hoping to be educated asap thru research and of course you guys!! Bring on any info insults or criticism you may have I can take it all lol!! Thanks, P

[chief]

Yours will be the first Drifter I have ever heard of that did NOT need an add-on FI box with replacement of both the air box and pipes. Usually, the stock FI's design will not allow it to adjust itself enough to overcome the increase in air achieved with opening up the intake and exhaust.

But as I have said before, mine needed a box with just a replacement of pipes which is also very unusual.

[SoLowCholo]

Had the same problem on my VTX 1800. Your Power Commander is shot. I guarantee it. You are right about the defective PCIIIs. I went round and round with mine for months till we finally took it off and went back to stock setup. Also it is not always true that you need PC with Hypercharger, at least in my case, I've put over 5000 miles with just Hypercharger and V&H longshots and get nothing but compliments on how she runs, looks, and sounds. Planning on installing Commander within the next couple of weeks and taking Hyper off and using something else (undetermined, HELP!!), but yeah mine crapped out on me about a year after install on VTX, it was all over the place as far as fuel/air mixture. Reset it, cleared it, reloaded new maps, tried several different intakes, everything, nothing fixed it, and there was no way to tell or test the actual unit that we could find, everything seemed fine on laptop, but as soon as we removed PC (had Thunder intake with PC and HC 3" big straights btw and went to Hyper with HC 3" big straights and no PC with everything else stock)she ran fine. Power Commander would not replace the unit. I was pretty dissapointed, but yeah I am still gonna put one on my Drifter because it did give my VTX a noticeable increase in performance, until it started trippin. Just my tew sents  . P

[chief]

An additional EFI box is needed if you greatly modify your bike... ie change air box AND pipes. Sometimes its needed if you only do one of these. I changed my pipes and needed a box.

However, there are boxes that don't use maps... ie cobra FI box... I have that one. The PCIII and its clones use maps and can squeeze out a bit more performance than the non-mapped boxes.

[1SG CAV]

The first PCIII was replaced a year ago because it was faulty. I have taken it totally out before and found out it ran worse, so I put it back on. I then found out that with a hyper charger installed a PCIII is required. I think Chief had the right Idea, look for a faulty sensor, because my FI LED comes on from time to time.

[ramakins]

Sorry to hear "ISG CAV". I'm no bike guru by any means, but if niether you or your mechanic got  pc111 to operate correctly, is it the unit itself thats defective. Is there a way to check the unit, if so, I am assuming the mechanic did, but I would be curious how??? Its been a long time since I installed, recall there being about six or so connectors, that loops into the stock EFI system. Have you tried running it without the pciii? Do our set-ups really need the pc111, hmmm, GOOD LUCK.

[chief]

If the FI light is lit continuously its got a fault code in there waiting to tell you the problem.  It will hold multiple fault codes, so you have to run the test after you fix a problem to 1) verify the fault is corrected, 2) erase the code from the ecu and 3) to get another fault code if it exists.

The FI led should never come on after the bike is running. If it does, there is a problem of some sort.

[1SG CAV]

When I took it in to the shop it would idle, and runs great between 75-90 miles an hour. When I got to the shop the FI led was on and it refused to idle. No fuels leaks or leaks period, But the thing runs really really rich. I had to clean the plugs every other time I rode it to work,(which is as far as it would run).  before I tried to close off the smog control it ran ok, but the FI LED would come on from time to time. Chief I;ll give your information to my mechanic. GOD I hope it;s a sensor. I really want to ride it to Durango in July.

[griz01]

Thanks for correcting the fuel pump output Chief. I have a 99 and was unaware that it had been changed on them newer ones; must be the weight of all that chrome 

[chief]

As Griz says, the dash FI light SHOULD be lit if there is a fault code stored. But you should check to ensure the dash light is working properly - (turn the ignition -and stop switch on-; the light should turn on for 1-2 seconds then turn off. If it doesn't come on then there is a problem with the LED.)  Remember the ECU controls the fuel pump when the bike is running, so it has to be good.

There are some failures which will NOT cause the ECU to record a fault code...

- FI LED on dash
- Idle speed control valves
- Fuel pressure regulator and fuel pressure
- Fuel injection main relay
- Ignition coil secondary wiring
- ECU circuit wiring

Griz gave you the pressure range... the output for a 2002 is actually 75ml/3 seconds vs 50ml/3secs on 1999-2000 models... it changed in 2001.

I always try to work from the simple to the more difficult. So I would check/test the following in this order...

- Ensure good battery, good connections - need it for testing in any event.
- Ensure FI LED works and there are No ecu faults/fault codes in the ECU. (it checks inputs from sensors, pickup coils, fuel injectors, ignition coils so it covers a lot of potential problems)
- Test for proper fuel pump pressure
- Test for proper fuel pump discharge

I also don't think the hypercharger itself has anything to do with your problem - unless its installed improperly causing a big difference in air flow... ie lot of air - LEAN mix; less air - RICH mix...

This is going to be a process of elimination apparently.

[griz01]

Not a big fan of Hypercharger either, but I doubt that has any bearing on your problem. They are just a waste of money (IMO). Chief has some good ideas. I presume the LED is not lit on your dash. If the Dash LED is not lit, I doubt your ECU will show any trouble codes. Troubleshooting the fuel system should be fairly easy for a competent dyno guy. Did he give any numbers of the fuel pressure? It does vary some: key on engine not running pump should shut off at about 46 PSI, after 3 seconds about it should still at 41 PSI: if it drops more than this there is a leak somewhere. External leaks should be obvious, but leaky fuel injectors are also possible. Now with engine running pressure should vary between 38 -41 PSI. If you are not getting these numbers, first check the battery. Yes I know, the Battery. Low battery voltage plays havoc with these fuel injection systems. If voltage is acceptable, then check the pressure regulator. If all this checks out, test the fuel pump output; 50 mL or more in 3 seconds. Should take a good guy less than 30 minutes to check all of these; if your dyno guy had a pressure gauge measuring the flow when he was tuning, he should already has most of these answers.

[chief]

A couple of things. Get rid of the hypercharger. Any other air box will do to determine if this has anything to do with the problem.

Have you ever had the ECU fully tested? The ECU determines the optimum fuel injection and ignition timing based upon input from 6 sensors and the ignition pickup coil. (TPS (throttle position sensor); ECT (engine coolant temperature); IAT (intake air temp); CAP (atmospheric pressure); vacuum sensor; and vehicle down sensor - and engine speed via the pickup coils)

The fuel system itself is made up of the fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, fuel injectors and throttle body (plus FI system fuse).

The ECU has a self test - not automatic, you have to jumper it to make it spit out the fault codes. It covers all the sensors and the fuel pump. All of these faults, excepting two, will still allow the bike to run... just very poorly.

I'd test the ECU or have it tested to determine any fault codes present.

From what you say, I don't think there is a problem with final drive, brakes or clutch.

Here is a list of things that could contribute - some are obviously not the whole problem, but there could be a combo effect.

1) clogged air filter (not likely with the hypercharger)
2) Restricted fuel flow (sounds like too much fuel)
3) Clogged/damaged muffler (doesn't sound like a problem)
4) worn or fouled plugs
5) Faulty fuel pump
6) Obstructed throttle body or defective fuel injector
7) Faulty coolant sensor
Faulty throttle position sensor
9) Faulty inlet air temp sensor
10) Faulty atmospheric temp sensor
11) Faulty vacuum sensor
12) Faulty ignition coils
13) Incorrect ignition timing (ECU or ignition pickup coil)
14) Low engine compression
15) Worn or damaged valve train assembly
16) Engine overheating

If engine surges:
1) fuel pressure
2) faulty fuel injectors
3) faulty coolant sensor.

At this point, you really need to test that ECU... IMHO

[annieoakley]

  That is not fair! What the heck is going on with your ride??  I wish I was closer, I would share my bike with you while yours is in the shop! Keep the faith! (My fingers are crossed that it is something simple that costs $0 to fix. I think you have spent enough already )

[1SG CAV]

Well I heard from the dyno shop, not good news. This guy is a bike guru and my bike has him stumped. he can't get it to run right. he says it keeps changing the fuel flow on him. (This guy does know what he's doing). I explained that the map for the items mounted on my bike won't even let my bike run. I told him that I've hooked the power commander up to my laptop, mad more adjustments just to get it to idle and run down the road. People behind me think they are leaking fuel just from my bike flumes. I would love to put the factory air system back on. but like Ramakins said you have to remove one of the heads to get the cross piece in. I guess my son-in-law got the better deal in the trade (Tractor for the bike) His cost bsince trade $0.00; mine $1300 for new throttle body, $300.00 and climbing for the dyno. my last ride (taking it to the dyno shop) was 44 miles and I used 3.5 gallons of gas.
Anneoakley I am so happy you got your bad boy going, it makes me jealous too. ride hard and long and enjoy the ride .