I let my bike sit in the garage since May on a battery tender. Pulled it out Thanksgiving day to go for a ride and it would not start. Cranks over fine. Shot a bit of either in the right ride throttle ports and not even a peep. Pulled the plugs and they were dry and quite nice. Extended the right rear plug wire to the engine case ground and see a spark when cranking. Bike has had no issues at all when it was parked. Tried the choke and still not a peep.
I am sure you looked at it already but: the red Kill Switch on your right handlebar? hmm I believe it stops the ignition so you would not have spark.
Dou you hear the fuel pump pumping when you turn the ignition key?
Perhaps battery power is too low for ignition but high enough to crank. In the user manual is a section with trouble shooting
Walter is right in one respect, the battery level may be too low to fire it up..
I would suggest a new battery first, due to the extended period of time it has been sitting..
It may have the VOLTAGE to spin it over, but not enough AMPS to do the job all the way..
The red switch SHOULD not even let the starter spin over when the switch is engaged.
Just a suggested starting point, from having been there.
My 84 Kawasaki GPz was the same way, weak battery=no starting..
45 Bravo
The fuel injection runs off the battery, so one dead cell could be the problem.
When you hit the key, do you hear the fuel pump come on?
Thank you for getting back to me with my starting issue. I been very busy towing flood cars since Sandy came to town. I should try to start the bike again on Sunday. I do hear the fuel pump run with the key turned on. The kill switch needs to be on for the bike to crank. I'm guessing to hot shot it from a car battery. I will post my findings.
FYI, if you try to jump start it, i would suggest that you connect the cables between the batteries, but DO NOT start the engine on the donor vehicle..
You only want the 12 volts, and the added amperage to assist you.
You do not want the 13.8 volts, and the high amperage that a car alternator puts out, going into the more fragile electrical system of the bike..
You are likely to smoke something you don't want to...
(Voice of experience involving a goldwing and trying to jump it off)
45 Bravo
Like 45 says, go battery to battery, with the car not running. BAD things happen if you don't.
Change the plugs.....NGK plugs have always had one major issue...once they are even slightly damp, they just won't fire. We have this problem with all the training bikes, too. We keep one spare set of each of the types around just in case...
Thanks for the jump start heads up. My plan is to just use a hot (fresh charged) battery that I have in the shop. Still have not got around to it.
I really want to extend my thanks for the help that I received. Never would I have aimed at the battery. After checking the condition, you guys were 100% on the money on that call. I did the hot shot from only a hot battery, and she fired right up like it was parked only yesterday. I think the clue should be the oil light. It went right out when the hot battery was connected, yet stayed lit without it. Oddly enough - the battery is only 2 years old, and I have always kept it on a battery tender ?? Thanks for the help !!!! Kindest Regards Scott
Glad ya got it worked out!
Nice, A riding Drifter is allways better :)
Ernscott is on to something, Lately i have been having an occasional issue with my drifter not starting.
It has always been dead reliable, whether the temp is 10 deg. f, or 105 deg.f.
I replaced the battery, all seemed well, then this morning i went out, turned on the key, the red lights did not go out, i tried the starter, just turning the engine over, no fire.
I ground it for a minute or 2 off and on, nothing.
I went back in the house to get the keys to the car, i decided to try it one more time, i turned the key on, the red lights went out, and it fired right up..
IF the battery was weak(it is only 2 weeks old) it would have been even weaker after having turned the engine over for 2 minutes.
So I think the issue is some where else.
Something electrical or computer gremlin related.
Does anyone here know the POST (Power On Self Test) for the Drifter computer?
Or what may be standing in the way of it starting the computer correctly?
thanks.
45 Bravo
Doesn't have a real post...did the fuel pump run the first time? I (and quite a few others) had to replace the ign. switch due this intermittent no start problem. Mine would do it after along run, and would restart after it sat for a little while. No fuel pump, no start. The last time I had it out before discovering the ign. switch problem, I rode 350 miles that day, and then it wouldn't start about 1/2 mile from my house, after I filled it up...had to walk home...could have been a hellofalot worse...
Thanks for that info Troll.
so, i have been trying some trouble shooting, when i turn the key on, the fuel pump runs, then quits, the FI light, temp. and oil lights all go off.
When i hit the start switch, if the temp light, and FI light come back on, it won't start, but turn the key off, then back on, the pump runs, the lights go off, and i hit the button again, some times the lights come back on and it won't start, some times, they stay off and it fires right up.
Something is strange.
tried it 12 times in a row, it started 5 of the 12 times. the other 7 times, the FI and temp light came back on, and it would not fire.
ideas?
45 Bravo
http://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/ECUFaultCodes.html (http://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/ECUFaultCodes.html)
This provides ecu testing info. This shows any faults in a bunch of sensors, fuel pump, injectors, coils etc. If there are any.
ok, now the lights stay on, and the pump doesn't run at all.
I ran the test, grounded pin 37, and when i turn the ignition back on, the FI light comes on, so according to the thread, it says there is a problem with the DFI.
any suggestions?
Ian
That is exactly the same symptoms mine had. It had a thunder ign. switch, now it has a stocker...
Mine is stock, (as far as I know)
Can you tell me this Troll.
If I direct connect the 2wires from the key switch, should it work the same? Just to test to see if it is the switch?
I have done some googling, but haven't had many hits on places that sell 1999 1500 drifter ignition..
Any idea what they cost?
Ian
The wiring on the switch has an interesting hidden feature. There is a resistance wire or resistor built into the circuit that sends a 5V signal to the fuel controller. They did this to prevent hot wiring and ride off thefts...That was where my thunder switch was causing the trouble. A stock switch is like $90, and comes with 2 keys that don't match your other locks...bonus!
The reason I was asking about testing is I just spent $100+ on a battery I apparently didn't need, I would hate to spend 100 on an ignition I didn't need.
Things are tight at the moment as my wife just had surgery the day before thanksgiving, and I am having surgery on the 28th.
And it is my only means of transportation. (Other than having the wife get up early and drive me to work)
Thanks for the info on the hidden feature..
Ian
Start at the beginning...
Ensure your battery connections are good, plugs and wires good and secure. Make sure the connections are good to the ignition switch. (I replaced a bad battery a couple of years ago... the replacement new battery was also bad - it showed full charge, but failed under load. New battery doesn't necessarily mean GOOD battery... though this is unusual. )
Try to start... if it fails, run the ECU test. (Link in previous post).
That will show any problems with: Sensors for throttle, vacuum, inlet air temp, coolant, atmospheric pressure; but also for the vehicle down sensor, pickup coils, injectors, fuel pump and ignition coils. If there are no fault codes, you can pretty much eliminate those things.
sure don't want to steer you wrong, but it's kinda hard doing this over the internet...I have a 2001, so yours MIGHT be a little different, but.....There are 5 wires connected to the ign switch..one battery + (white wire), two lighter wires that run to the front and rear lights, one heavy wire that runs to the junction box (brown), and a lighter gray wire that runs to terminal 3 on the ecm. This is the tricky wire. According to the wiring diagram, it's there, but the legend for the ckt. pins says it's unused. This is the wire that was not getting proper voltage on mine, and caused the whole problem. The thunder ign. switch the P.O. had put on deteriorated at he connections, and the inline resistor failed. Incorrect (or no) voltage on this ckt. will cause a no start condition....cranks, spark, etc, but no fuel pump. There is a link on the mods and tips section talking about this problem. I found the link AFTER I spent way too much money and time...http://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/jobearIgnition.html (http://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/jobearIgnition.html)
Notice that the 100ohm resistor goes into the line to the "unused" pin#3 on the ECM......
I did those things last night, I even replaced the negative ground cable with a new one I had bought a few months ago.
Checked key wire connections.
No go, then did ecu test, all the lights stayed on.
So the instructions in the earlier post said the problem is the DFI if that happens.
I talked to the local shop today, and told them what was happening, and the symptoms.
I never mentioned the key switch possibity.
The owner said they have had 3 fi vulcans with similar symptoms over the years, and he said after much parts changing, and labor, it was the key switch on all three..
I guess I will just cough up the cash for the new key.
But with my luck, it will be the pump...
I still try what troll suggested after I get the new key in to see if I can figure out a way or mod to bypass that feature for future riders..
Ian
Troll.... this is why your a hell of a man. Your a fine American. A true biker that takes the time to help a brother out!
I'm only in it for the money....
If sooo, you need to be one the receiving end of the donations pool. And that's cool.
I'm sending you all bills..... ;D
Seriously... Diagnostics as well as repair is what I did for my working life..keeps your brain working. Armed with books, and 40+ years of experience, I'll help where I can, or at least try.
You misread the instructions.
The ECU instructions tell you if during the light check the FI light doesn't come on you have a lighting circuit problem. It also says if the FI light comes on while the bike is running you have a DFI SYSTEM problem. Once you jumper appropriately as long as that FI light comes on after a reset you have a fault code in there. There may be more than one.
Evidence points to an ignition switch problem. I'd replace that, but some folks prefer to eliminate all other possibilities before replacing parts.
[size=78%] [/size]
I ordered the key switch today, will take a week to come in.
I jumpered the pin 37, but when i turned on the switch, all the lights came on again and stayed on, no flashing from the FI light (and i waited for a minute with the ignition on. )
I bought a new resistor today from rat shack, (100 ohms, 2watts) $1.29 for 2 of them, and will play with the old switch after i get in the new one. Maybe there is a emergency fix there.
Thanks guys, I will keep you posted.
ian
I never sold you nothing so leave me out of this problem......
I would never call your house the rat shack. A Drifter lives there!
As a ham radio operator, we have our radio/work room the "ham shack", when radio shack trade marked the shack name, they forced autoshack to change their name to autozone. And tried to sue over the ham shack name..
I try to do as little trade with them as possible..
But I would never call your abode a shack...
45 Bravo
;D ok your back on my lottery list again.......
And the Fight continues,
Ding Ding, Round 2.
I got the new key switch in today, put it in, same problem.
same lights..
I can say this, If i put my ear to the tank when i turn on the key, i can hear a electric motor running faintly, it is making a sound like it is turning over maybe 10 revs per second ( read that as i can hear something going dut, dut, dut, about 10 times a second,, and only very faintly.
not the normal buzz sound you can hear while seated on the bike.
Any ideas?
in talking to the kawasaki dealer in the next larger town, he thinks the ECU is going out, and the noise i am hearing is the pump trying to turn over but being supplied with extremely low voltage from the ecu.
He suggest i bring it there and let them put it on their diagnostic machine. ($70)
Even he admits it will sometimes show what is up, and sometimes it won't.
Due to the timing, cams and such according to him, the replacement ecu will have to be from a drifter, the other Fi bikes wont work.
Anyone here have any suggestions?
Anyone got an extra ECU they would loan me long enough to check it out?
I will pay all shipping & fees.
45 Bravo
I again followed the procedure listed here http://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/ECUFaultCodes.html (http://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/ECUFaultCodes.html)
as suggested by Chief.
It still shows the same as before, instead of the FI light flashing the codes when i turn the key on after jumpering the pin, the FI light just stays on.
So, That is where i am at, The bike is my only means of transportation, but as my wife had surgery, then me(a week ago) it hasn't been an issue, but it will be shortly when i return to work.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
thanks.
45 Bravo
I'll send you mine 45.
Thats quite an offer Chili, but if it is your primary, i don't want to take you off line from riding while it is in transit both ways.
I found one on ebay for $150, (but it was just listed yesterday and has 5 days left hopefully no one bids too high)
I would prefer to try someones spare.
Ian
Those ECU's are strange beasts. When mine started to go the horn came on and wouldn't shut off.
Don't worry, for now, that the efi light won't flash codes, that's actually a good thing. You are going to have to measure some voltages. take off the speedo cover and find the fuel pump connector. Should be 4 wires...blk/w and rd/w....measure across them by back probing the connectors with a sewing needle inserted in the connector between the insulation and the seal. Turn on the key, and you should get 12.5V or more, for 3 seconds, then 0V. If the voltage is correct then the ecm and relay are doing their job. If the voltage is not correct, disconnect the plug and measure the voltage at key on on the red wire and ground your meter to the engine. should be 12.5V. If the voltage is correct now, then the pump is open or the ground circuit to the computer is incomplete. Look at this diagram and follow the circuit...
Quote from: 45 Bravo on January 04, 2013, 17:31:11 PM
Thats quite an offer Chili, but if it is your primary, i don't want to take you off line from riding while it is in transit both ways.
I found one on ebay for $150, (but it was just listed yesterday and has 5 days left hopefully no one bids too high)
I would prefer to try someones spare.
Ian
Haven't rode in couple of weeks. But your welcome to it if needed.
Thank you Chili. I will keep it in mind
I am here deciphering the schematic Troll attached.
I am going to try this tomorrow. (if it gets warm enough so i don't have to thaw my fingers every few minutes over a heater)
Oh to be like Ratman and have the bike in the living room.
Ian
Thank you for the Info Troll, i will try it tomorrow.
I bought a service manual shortly after getting the bike, but since this has started I have turned the whole house upside down, and can't find it anywhere.
( I think it migrated with my daughter to kansas city with her stuff, but she says it isn't there..)
thanks again Troll.
Ian
Let me (us) know what you find. Keep in mind that you could temporarily run a 12v power supply to the pump if you had to just to get the bike running. If it turns out to be the pump (highly unlikely) I have one.
Sorry Gentleman, I do not own a 1500 that will not start but I see my name being branded about so I most respond...the following quote was made by Mr. 45....
QuoteI am going to try this tomorrow. (if it gets warm enough so i don't have to thaw my fingers every few minutes over a heater)
Oh to be like Ratman and have the bike in the living room.
Yes it is a pleasure to have it parked in the living room, last night I alid on the floor and listen to tunes on the radio and cleaned my whitewalls with Mr. Clean magic eraser, worked wonders and it was so easy, even Troll will be impressed at how nice they came out.....
but 45 I would not have to thaw my fingers because it is not cold there yet, what is the temps around your home right now....
Condition:Cloudy Pressure:101.9 kPa Tendency:falling Visibility:24 km
Temperature:-8.0°C Dewpoint:-12.9°C Humidity:68 % Wind:ESE 15 km/h Wind Chill:-14
if you are lower then -14*C oh sorry that would be 7* F then you can wear gloves...lol
No, it isn't that cold, it got up to 40f, 95% humidity and a wind (not to be confused with a breeze)
I am still a little under the weather.
Thursday and Friday I over did myself some, so today I tried to take it a little easy, I undid the cover, found the plug I needed and called it a day.
My fingers felt like Popsicles.
I spent the next few hours in a chair by the fire at the shooting range, with some friends.
Talking and visiting..
Before we moved here, I had a heated garage to work/tinker in..
While not as comfy as the living room, my wife didn't complain...
Ian
;) at your age and after surgery you should really take it easy and not over do it.....
40*F wow t shirt weather I would be out side suntanning in the all togather...man you have it some nice there.....ok later
Weather in the south is deceiving, it shows one thing and feels like another.
A few years ago, we attended a funeral in Louisiana in January, it was colder and blustier there than in Colorado we had left the day before in the snow..
It is a miserable wet cold.
Ask others who live here..
Ian
Well, I got it fixed!!!
It warmed up to 40 something today, and less humidity.
After, doing what Troll suggested, I found 0 volts on the wire to the pump.
Unplugged it, and 0 volts coming from the male side of the plug.
As I sat there contemplating the schematic (for the 30th time) something kept nagging at me...
And then it dawned on me..
That little circle with the V in it..
A fuse all by it self, not in the junction box, the DFI main fuse.
I got to searching, and found it tucked away, behind the main junction box, outside of the battery box.
Here is a photo of the fuse block for everyone's reference:
Here is the fuse inside.
I replaced that, it fired right up.
My only concern, is what caused it to blow and melt to that degree?
So, I have a new switch if anyone needs one.
I will also be doing a tips thread as to replacing the resistor, or trading the key tumblers to keep your old keys.
(I took apart my old key switch and photographed it and re lubed the mechanism)
Thanks to all who helped.
Thanks to Troll for the photos & expertise, thanks to Chili for the offer of the ecu loaner.
Thanks to Ratman for the hard time.
45 Bravo
Glad you got it fixed! I had to replace that fuse, but when I did it I had no power at all to anything, so I didn't think that was your issue.
QuoteThanks to Ratman for the hard time.
Well Sorry but Christ on a crutch, it is like 40*F you should quit your whinning and get it done. Were you working outside, or inside a building out of the wind, as for the surgery it has been a couple days now...you should be up and moving looking after your lovely spouse.
ok glad it worked out for you, hey said nice things in the 800 section about you....later dude.....
Yea, I hear ya..
I have a covered carport, open on 3 sides, so, technically, outside, just out of the rain.
I took care of her after her surgery, now she can take care of me...
Just kidding, she had some ongoing pain at 1 of the incision sites and nausea after hers, luckily, I have not had the pain, or nausea.
Just so y'all know, we both had bariatric surgery, she has lost 30 lbs in a month, I started following the diet the dr. Had her on when she started, she is back on regular food now, I am still on sugar free, and mostly liquids for a few more weeks.
Getting by on less than 300 calories a day isn't too bad..
But I so crave Popeyes chicken...
The night before my surgery, my wife and daughter brought Popeyes chicken home...
I had sugar free jello.....
I see how much they love me.....
45 Bravo
The first year after the surgery is the toughest. Some foods you just can't tolerate, but in general you can eat about anything and still lose. The problem is, if you don't get to healthy eating habits in the time, after a year you'll start to gain it back, and you don't want to go through all this to just end up back where you started, right?
I know what you mean, a co worker had hers 8 months ago, she only lost 40 lbs on the liquid diet, since going back on solid food, she does not exercise, and can now eat 1/2 a Big Mac and some fries in 1 sitting..
I keep telling her, if you don't change what is between the ears, she will be right back where she was.
Oh, she is 5ft 3, and is stuck at 213lbs.
She realizes how much calories is in McDonald's food, but she don't care, egg mcmuffin in the am, Big Mac at lunch, pizza for supper.
Is her daily routine..
Oh well, that will NOT be me...
45 Bravo
Remember, you get the most nutrition from raw fruits and veggies. Grapes make a great snack food.....low in calories and high in nutrition. Bananas, cantaloupe, and pineapple are great for breakfast...good energy.
HEY let us get back on track here.......
You ahve a carport? So smart dude you go and get some heavy clear plastic and wrap the carport in that. When her angleship hollers that you are making the house look like a red-neck joint ...you respond with well if I could move to the living room and work there......
Sorry PC no disrespect for you people........but come on 45 tough coot like you and 40* weather and you are cold.....man.....
Nawwwww, we took a rabbit trail there for a bit.......
WOW! That fuse looks mucho cooked! :o It almost looks like something externally toasted it.
Glad you got the problem fixed! If it were me, there would have been tools randomly flying all throughout the neighborhood. . . . . imbedded in anything that got in the way. :o ;)
After 45 years of chasing intermittent electrical issues (the check engine light came on while we were in Texas, last month)...it's nice to have a hard failure. That blown fuse is clearly the culprit, but what bothers me is that the bike started now and then...and then there is the what blew the fuse issue. I'll go over the diagrams again, and see if I can find a likely cause. I don't think I'd be getting rid of the switch...they have a failure history all their own.
45 could you come over and help outside today for about 10 mins......
woke up took a buddy to the hospital for day surgery and my Jimmy was hard to start, once it started I checked the temps...and it is for you in F sitting right at -15*F I'll be upstairs polishing my ride.....in the living room....
What if its something as sneaky as a wire rubbing through and shorting to ground?
I don't know if this is too late but I had a similar problem on one of my Honda Shadows, the ignition switch was faulty so I took it off and took photos of each step as I stripped it, then I noticed that a small landing where the switch makes contact was burnt and worn so I built it up with solder, I reassembled the switch and have had no problems since then.
This may save you some money while things are tight..
John.
Sorry for not getting back with everyone, have returned to work, and have been busy.
Apparently no one here (other than me) knows how to create ads for a newspaper.
( I guess that is job security).
Ok, After replacing the fuse, it works as fine, i did go back and remove the fuse, and the problem duplicates itself exactly as it was. same lights stay on and all.
When the fuse is in, the fuel pump runs, just like new.
I ran the check on the ecu, no fault codes shown.
I now keep 2 extra fuses for the correct amperage for that one in my tool bag.
It still worries me why the fuse burned to that degree, instead of just popping.
Maybe it was a defective fuse.
45 Bravo
Hi,
It still worries me why the fuse burned to that degree, instead of just popping.
Maybe it was a defective fuse.
45 Bravo
The reason the fuse burned like that is because it was loose in the fuseholder..if you had intermittant problems before the final fault that was when the fuse was connecting and disconnecting..you really need to replace the fuseholder..The burning was caused as the voltage arced across from the fuse to the holder so one of the wires is cooked and needs cutting back to make a good connection with the new holder..
John.
I agree with john, if you don't replace it at least scrape it until you get a good contact or it'll just do it again.