Canadian 1999 1500 Drifter front suspension

gwilki · July 17, 2021, 12:10:31 PM

I apologize for the long delay in replying, TJ. I missed your post somehow. I thought that I posted the run out, but can't find my post so I must be dreaming. I forget what it was, but it was well within the specs that someone on here posted. Tks for your interest.

tj · July 11, 2021, 07:37:34 AM

Glad you got it sorted! Out of curiosity, what was the runout on that wheel?

mittico68 · June 21, 2021, 01:56:10 AM

Nice that everything went good.
Now jump on that scoot and go ridin'!

gwilki · June 19, 2021, 14:51:10 PM

Update: Well after much wrenching around, the issue is resolved. I fixed it by installing a new Shinko rear tire to match the front one. I don't know if the rear Dunlop was bad or simply a bad match for the front Shinko. What I did find out, and likely should have seen sooner, was that even though the Dunlop had very few kilometres on it, it was almost 9 years old. Not good.

Thanks to all who provided advice.

Bucko · June 07, 2021, 13:32:08 PM

Difficult to accurately measure low pressure with that pump. Ideally you'd want a pump with a maximum gauge reading of 15 ~ 20 lbs.

This one is relatively expensive digital unit but says it will measure in 1/2 lb increments: https://www.marzocchi.com/products/digital-shock-pump

(I used to have one of these before I broke it : https://www.ebay.com/itm/274693274552?hash=item3ff4febbb8:g:a9gAAOSwWENgM~yO)

gwilki · June 07, 2021, 06:26:12 AM

Tks, OD. That's the one that I ordered locally. Might be here this week some time.

Old Drifter · June 06, 2021, 08:39:11 AM

Quote from: gwilki on June 04, 2021, 06:56:42 AM
Tks, Troll. I wasn't clear, I think. This particular service department puts nitrogen in them. I have no idea why.

What do you use for a pump. I've been looking online for a no-loss pump. There seem to be quite a few very pricey units.

Progressive Mini Gauge Pump, https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/progressive-mini-gauge-pump?gclid=Cj0KCQjw5PGFBhC2ARIsAIFIMNdQUe43BsJq2YM8OTikkWFmcgiah_hnHk5kaiJzacI7TL9CxpGeyQMaAoc9EALw_wcB This is what is used for the rear shocks. Prices and brands vary, however this is the type to use.

gwilki · June 04, 2021, 18:05:44 PM

Update. I completed a contact me form on the Dunlop site yesterday and got a call today from Dunlop in California. He cleared up the message on the website that says that the Cruise Max is not for the Drifter. It is the third choice of Dunlop as it turns out. So, no worries there.

However, he was really against mixing tire brands. He didn't seem to be pushing Dunlop as he said that replacing the rear with a Shinko or the front with a Dunlop may well solve my issue - no guarantees,of course. By comparison, the Shinko guy that I spoke to had no concerns about mixing his SR777 on the front with the Dunlop Cruise Max on the rear.

In my former life, riding BMW's in the 70's and 80's, the conventional wisdom was that brands were never mixed. We mixed brands on our road race bikes, but that was to achieve specific ends. Never on the road bikes.

gwilki · June 04, 2021, 17:59:56 PM

Tkw, Bucko. I ordered a pump through the dealer. Not cheap, but necessary kit, I think.

Bucko · June 04, 2021, 17:34:34 PM

Quote from: gwilki on June 04, 2021, 06:56:42 AM
Tks, Troll. I wasn't clear, I think. This particular service department puts nitrogen in them. I have no idea why.

What do you use for a pump. I've been looking online for a no-loss pump. There seem to be quite a few very pricey units.

Get a cheap no-loss shock pump from a bicycle shop - you'll probably have a tough time finding one that has a low enough graduation on the pressure scale though as most bicycle shock pumps are relatively high pressure.

gwilki · June 04, 2021, 06:56:42 AM

Tks, Troll. I wasn't clear, I think. This particular service department puts nitrogen in them. I have no idea why.

What do you use for a pump. I've been looking online for a no-loss pump. There seem to be quite a few very pricey units.

Troll · June 03, 2021, 19:16:47 PM

No they don't They have plain old air in them. I run 25 psi...rebound set at 4.

gwilki · June 03, 2021, 13:55:32 PM

I just got a call from the Service Manager at my local dealer. The "nitrogen in the shocks" comment was a miscommunication on the part of a relatively new service advisor. The person who advised her was referring to the rear shocks. Apparently, they load them with nitrogen rather than air.
I wanted to post this in fairness to the dealership. Miscommunications can happen.

gwilki · June 03, 2021, 13:52:28 PM

It can't hurt to try. Tks, TJ.

I spoke to a good guy at Shinko. He was very surprised about the recommended front tire pressure. The manual says 28. He said that they recommend the pressure shown on the sidewall, +/- 2 lbs. That pressure is 49, so not even close. Mine is at about 32 right now. Interesting that the manual shows between 36 and 40 for the rear. The sidewall on my rear tire says 41 - very close.

tj · June 03, 2021, 11:23:20 AM

Just a thought...rear suspension setting.

Maybe it's worth a look and adjustment.

My rear shocks are set at 13lbs with the dampener at 3. (I'm 225lbs)

tj · June 03, 2021, 10:18:12 AM

Quote from: gwilki on June 03, 2021, 09:07:46 AM
I apologize JT for my bad math skills. The rear wheel has 1.375oz/39grams on it, not 2.375oz.

Sounds like the weight is within reason on both wheels (assuming it is in the correct area).

Even if your runout both axi and rad on both wheels is within spec, I think it is still worth looking into...mismatched tires (front to rear) and the rear tire not being a "match" for the bike. Too far off what is suggested by the tire manufacturer and the FSM.

gwilki · June 03, 2021, 09:50:18 AM

Tks, Troll. I'll add that to my list of possible causes. The list is getting much longer than I had anticipated. It will keep me off the streets.

Troll · June 03, 2021, 09:33:00 AM

Had a thought this morning about your issue. Seeing the age and the amount of time it's sat idle, I might think about a stiff u-joint causing the problem. http://www.vulcangadgets.com/files/ujoint.html

gwilki · June 03, 2021, 09:07:46 AM

I apologize JT for my bad math skills. The rear wheel has 1.375oz/39grams on it, not 2.375oz.

tj · June 03, 2021, 07:10:11 AM

Quote from: gwilki on June 02, 2021, 19:57:22 PM
After a ride today, I started to think that maybe the issue is coming from the rear tire/wheel. TJ described my issue as like horse bucking. That's a better description that a handlebar vibration.

Since my last post, I've found the following:

The front tire is a Shinko SR777 bias ply. The front wheel has 1/2 oz of weight on it.
I have yet to measure the run out on the front wheel.

The rear tire is a Dunlop Cruise Max bias ply. The rear wheel has 2 3/8 oz of weight on it. The rear wheel is out by about .030" axial, well within the spec. This measurement is with the wheel on the bike. I have yet to measure the radial. I will likely need to remove the wheel to get a radial run out measurement.

One thing that I am going to take up with Dunlop is that they say that the Cruise Max is not a match for my bike. The size is right, so I want to find out why they say that.

A few things come to mind...

Having almost 70 grams of weight on the rear wheel IMHO is a lot of weight. If the "balance dot" is opposite the valve stem and the wheel weights are 180 away from the stem (assuming the weights are in the same spot)...then there is not much else you can do about it.

Your tires being mismatched (front to rear) will not help the situation. Some say you can mismatch tires with no ill effects. IIRC a few Ducatis came from the factory with mismatched tires...I don't think it's a good idea here and it may be compounding your issues.

If the manufacturer doesn't list the cruisemax as a match for the bike...construction and behavior may be different enough to not be a "match" (belted bias ply vs bias ply etc).

Too many things are not quite right with that rear tire...

gwilki · June 02, 2021, 19:57:22 PM

After a ride today, I started to think that maybe the issue is coming from the rear tire/wheel. TJ described my issue as like horse bucking. That's a better description that a handlebar vibration.

Since my last post, I've found the following:

The front tire is a Shinko SR777 bias ply. The front wheel has 1/2 oz of weight on it.
I have yet to measure the run out on the front wheel.

The rear tire is a Dunlop Cruise Max bias ply. The rear wheel has 2 3/8 oz of weight on it. The rear wheel is out by about .030" axial, well within the spec. This measurement is with the wheel on the bike. I have yet to measure the radial. I will likely need to remove the wheel to get a radial run out measurement.

One thing that I am going to take up with Dunlop is that they say that the Cruise Max is not a match for my bike. The size is right, so I want to find out why they say that.

gwilki · June 01, 2021, 15:40:39 PM

Tires are Shinko. I have dial gauges so I can check the run out. I have a large wood turning lathe that I can mount the wheels on and check them that way.

I'll check how much weight is on each wheel and report back.

Tks, TJ

tj · June 01, 2021, 14:27:12 PM

Quote from: gwilki on June 01, 2021, 14:05:57 PM
Do you bother to torque them? I'm assuming that, since you use an open end wrench, that you do not.

26-65 INCH/lbs from FSM.

tj · June 01, 2021, 14:24:08 PM

Quote from: gwilki on June 01, 2021, 11:51:34 AM
All advice is welcome.

I would start here.

Check both wheels for runout.
From the FSM - With tires installed, service limits are 2mm axial (side to side) and 1.5mm radial (up and down). Standard is 0.8mm both axial and radial.

Check how much weight is on the wheel.
There is a note in the FSM. More than 90grams should not be used...I think that's about 3oz. Whenever I balance a tire (static), I start to get concerned around 2oz...especially if it's on the front.

What kind of tire is it?

I've had bad luck with the Michelin commanders. My issues showed up at 60-80km/h. I would have sworn the front wheel was the problem. Turns out the rear was out of round...sometimes you just can't tell.

gwilki · June 01, 2021, 14:05:57 PM

Do you bother to torque them? I'm assuming that, since you use an open end wrench, that you do not.