Demise of the Metric Market

[LarryInSeattle]

My next bike will have ABS.

[jmbo]

It's hard to qualify the difference between the cost of buying and owning an HD or a new Indian and an average metric cruiser.  I guess I'm in another league. I am neither better nor worse but I just like to ride.  That's it. I am not out to impress nor out bling any fellow riders. I always liked the style of the Drifter so when I had the chance I bought one.  Before that I rode Triumphs. (750 Tiger, TBS, Speedmaster) They were great rides. God forbid the Drifter perished for some reason but if it did, I doubt I would pop high coin for an HD when there are so many metrics cruisers with low mile for pennies of the Harley dollar.  This is especially true when you consider you can buy a "mine is bigger than your's" Triumph Rocket or pretty much any use high end cruiser for less than a used Sportster.  Nothing against the HD boys and how they spend their money. I just like to pay cash for my rides and enjoy spending the rest on where the road will take me.

[CDNRatMan]

  My brother-in-law owns a Harley Davidson Electra Glide something or other, it is a full loaded dresser has all the bells and whistles champagne and white in colour and tons of chrome. FYI he and my sister are well off and money is not a issue for them. So anyway, he dropped $1,200.00 on a seat, hates it not happy, sister on the back hates it not comfortable. He sent it to me to have my friend work his magic on the seat. He dropped $2,300.00 on the engine to make his gezzer glide faster.........ok.......
Last time he was here, I showed him my list, of everything I have put into my bike. Purchase price and all the work so far and parts and I am still under $10,000.00, around the $7,000.00 mark right now......thanks to people here on the forum and kijiji........lol.....

[Troll]

Heh.....

[gdrudd13]

This is why I make my own, always have. Sometimes you find something that comes close, and a die grinder or welder is all you need for the final "fitting"

This is the route I've taken for the most part. It means that it probably is truly unique instead of just "parts catalog customized". I chock it up to owning a low production edition bike. Plus it's a great feeling when your bike gets more looks than the much more expensive HD sitting next to it that has more money in add ons than you do in your entire bike.

[John Hopkins]

I suppose it comes down to where you live..

I'm not going to knock Harleys, I respect them as a great bike so I am going to repeat some of the things we find against them over here..

Vibration.. compared to most metric bikes Harleys vibrate more and they say you can follow a Harley by the trail of bits that fall off.

Parts.. $ vs £. The $ is worth less than the £ on the currency market but, if a Harley part costs $30 it will cost us £30.

The sportster.. Nice looking bike and seems to sell quite well. But.. over here it is considered a girls bike, Some Harley owners are very snobbish and look down on sportster owners unless they have the 1200 engine.

I have to admit I really like my Drifter, and I really like my 700 Shadow, the Drifter is super reliable and the shadow is great in hairpins and agility. I also loved my V-max and a load of other bikes I owned but I think I made a mistake buying my R1, I don't like the drop handlebars and the tank pushing against my stomach so I might have to get rid of that..

Bottom line.. I don't think this is the right time of my life to buy a Harley or an Indian.

John.

[Troll]

After having the Drifter I'm convinced that there are two kinds of parts. Custom fit parts that won't fit a Drifter, and Universal fit parts that still won't fit a Drifter.

This is why I make my own, always have. Sometimes you find something that comes close, and a die grinder or welder is all you need for the final "fitting" I have done the H-D route, but when I did it, it was swapmeet parts and different years that were close enough...I don't have a big enough credit line to buy all the "custom" parts that EVERYONE ELSE HAS to make my bike "unique"....by the way, which black SofTail is yours?

[gdrudd13]

That said the die is cast and HD is king. Today i received my 2" thick J&P catalog. When it comes to custom fit there are lot of pots of parts for not that many different bike.  The loin share of it is for an HD. In addition there are lots and lots of parts that fit "any" bike.   Hell I even think I found a sissy bar I can put on my CT50.

After having the Drifter I'm convinced that there are two kinds of parts. Custom fit parts that won't fit a Drifter, and Universal fit parts that still won't fit a Drifter.

[jmbo]

"The second reason I see for this is that the metric bikes are so often seen as "starter bikes". People buy a vstar or a Vulcan with the intention of buying an HD in a couple of years and therefore don't put a lot of money into a bike they're just going to sell."

Interesting you should say that about starter bikes. Yes, it's true and here in Harley country metric bikes are often Mama's bike. Dad will clatter past on his dresser followed by Mama on her Shadow. (Even through Mama would rather have a Sportster.) But what i find in more interesting is when you realize that the goal for many guys is to "work your way up to a " Harley.  I've got nothing against Harleys but it says little for the appreciation for the multitude of technical advances metric and Euro bikes have made.

That said the die is cast and HD is king. Today i received my 2" thick J&P catalog. When it comes to custom fit there are lot of pots of parts for not that many different bike.  The loin share of it is for an HD. In addition there are lots and lots of parts that fit "any" bike.   Hell I even think I found a sissy bar I can put on my CT50.

[gdrudd13]

If it wasn't for the looks of the Drifter, I wouldn't have gotten it for the reason that there is very limited current aftermarket support for them. This is the one thing pushing me towards HD. I'm glad that the aftermarket is starting to make products for Indian, and recently it seems Polaris so I'll hopefully have options when it comes time to get a second, larger bike. While all metric bikes have mounts for saddlebags and stuff, none really have the parts to truly customize them. You look at HD and you can get large touring tanks (I'm very jealous of this one) and custom fenders, and all sorts of parts to make your bike stand out (at least make it your own) and to fit the purpose you're wanting to fill with it, and they're practically bolt on modifications. There isn't a single part of an HD that you can't modify with parts ordered from a catalog really. The main reason I see for this is because of the sheer numbers of them being sold every year. I haven't looked up the numbers, but I'm guessing that there are more HD cruisers sold than probably any other two brands of metric cruisers combined. The second reason I see for this is that the metric bikes are so often seen as "starter bikes". People buy a vstar or a Vulcan with the intention of buying an HD in a couple of years and therefore don't put a lot of money into a bike they're just going to sell.

[greenbarn]

I think jmbo sums up one of the main differences between our two countries..

In Britain the factories have all closed down, we used to have factories on every street corner making everything you could possibly need, now they have all gone..

So a factory in China makes everything for Europe, The Far East, and Britain, so they have a vast market of new and old stuff, and because we have replaced our factories with distribution centres we can still buy almost anything we want.. There are Chinese firms advertising in Britain that will copy any part you send them 'one off' at a cheaper price than the original manufacturer, and that includes delivery costs.

John.

John, let's send them a Roadhouse Exhaust and make some one-offs....   I think maybe we could sell a couple.    But then, that IS the problem...  only a couple..

[John Hopkins]

I think jmbo sums up one of the main differences between our two countries..

In Britain the factories have all closed down, we used to have factories on every street corner making everything you could possibly need, now they have all gone..

So a factory in China makes everything for Europe, The Far East, and Britain, so they have a vast market of new and old stuff, and because we have replaced our factories with distribution centres we can still buy almost anything we want.. There are Chinese firms advertising in Britain that will copy any part you send them 'one off' at a cheaper price than the original manufacturer, and that includes delivery costs.

John.

[jmbo]

As a one time after market supplier (different industry) I can tell you that like every successful business, we followed the trends. If you bought a lot of "X" we made a lot of custom accessories for "X". A soon as people switch to "Y" we made stuff for "Y". Is is not as easy today.  New product startup costs are expensive. Fewer and fewer companies are able to invest in short term returns. HD is a sure thing and because they haven't changed in 9000 years, the risk is low that whatever you make will fit yesterday's, today's and tomorrow's bike.

Metric Bike makers are not traditionalists and they don't build for interchangeability. It's all about new and different.  It all about a zillion of different models within a brand each with unique features, designs, and different platforms.  As such bikes change and any custom parts for that bike need to change as well.  Tough to keep up in a fragmented market. It easier and more profitable to play follow the leader.

[John Hopkins]

There is a large cruiser market in Europe, Britain, Germany, Holland all have quite large markets, France and Spain, Portugal.. I would say the cruiser market in Britain accounts for at least 30% of all motorcycles sold to riders who have passed all their driving tests.. Harley's, Honda's, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha, Triumph, BMW, all sell well, V-twins are popular, Valkeries, Goldwings, and in line fours, add to the mix, and then there are idiots like me who buy stupid fast bikes like the R1, that will get a ticket just for looking fast.

I would guess that another 40% would be youngsters who are only allowed to ride a bike under 125cc's and the rest are sportsbikes.

We don't have the population in Britain that you have in the states, but we have a lot of people in a small space, outside of the main cities we don't have any effective linking public transport so unless you have some personal form of transport it can sometimes take two days to travel 300 miles between certain towns, this means finding public transport to do a shift work job is almost impossible...

So yes we have a cruiser market and are pretty well supplied with most spare parts.

John.

[kfoster]

I agree....they were speaking of the metric (cruiser) market in the U.S. Is there really much of a cruiser market in Europe?

[John Hopkins]

I honestly think they are talking about the domestic market.. (USA) there is no shortage of metric parts in Europe or Britain although most are imported from Japan and China.. The USA has more restrictions on importing things that are available in America and J&P may not have the same buying power or metric market as we do..

To explain buying power in relation to our populations, we import a container of metric parts from China and it arrives at a dock like Felixstowe, it is shipped to a distribution point and then opened up and sold to suppliers all over the country.. so one person buys for the whole country. Now this is where it gets interesting, the biggest supplier gets first choice and the best price, they might sell on to other suppliers at a low price to offset the cost, the second supplier may sell at a lower mark up than the first supplier and is thus able to undercut the person who sold to him, so prices become very competitive. Also the initial importer will sell the final few  (hundred) parts at a reduced price so that he can order another container without having money tied up in old stock.

Sometimes if a container has not arrived on the ship it was supposed to be on the customer will complain to the factory in China and they will ship a replacement, the original container is sometimes offloaded in a European port by mistake, When the first container arrives in Felixstowe the person it is for is phoned and told it is waiting pick up.. when the second container arrives they are phoned again and told it has arrived, but they already have their container and refuse to accept it, the Chinese don't want it back because they will have to pay transport and storage charges, so the dock auctions off the container to the public at a greatly reduced price.. This puts even more items on the market at a very low price.

John.

[chief]

Apparently its not just Drifters having accessory problems.

Demise of the Metric Market