Comments and complaints

[Vinnie]

Ron,  Just keep plugging away and don't let the flies bother you.  There are a great many things that will need planning and working out and I am sure you can handle it.  I haven't been to a Drift-In since 2011 but I am planning to come to this years AND if possible bring  another Drifter rider who is new to the forum and the group. SO PLEASE don't cancel it!  I have enjoyed the ones I attended and want to enjoy more...Its the fellowship and rider camaraderie and seeing old friends that make it for most of us.  Not the shirts or the prizes or who won best bike at the dinner.
And to all who read this post, I am no longer in Western KS....I am in Eastern KS, Fort Scott to be exact.
xoxoxo  LOL

[Troll]

  Don't worry, Ron, the whole thing is almost a year away, and the tiny details are best left for the end, rather than the beginning or the process. It really should be more about places and people than things.....I, for one, am looking forward to seeing part of the country I've only passed through going somewhere else....

[Dancing Bear]

We wanted to be sure all knew the white elephant gift exchange has been cancelled.

Please note we are working on a change regarding some things previously discussed about the logos.

Hopefully we might be able to help some people with their concerns once we have things worked out.

I have to say this entire process is coming as more of a surprise than I had even anticipated.

Ron

[greenbarn]

Didn't Trip sell his Drifter??    I thought I saw him list it for sale....  Probably bought a Vaquero.....

Scott RideOn:  Welcome to the Forum.   It was a pleasure meeting you at DI14. 

[Troll]

Looks like his stop # 3 would be at my house, and then stop #4 for Jimbo....like the song says..."take the long way home"   I've done that ride along lake Michigan's shore..beautiful, but you can't make any time. Coming down through Green Bay, you could pick up one more on your way...Tripwire!

[moosewing3]

Ratty, couldn't you find a more circuitous route? Perhaps through Winnipeg?? LOL, go the proper way and we should be able to hook up. Still waiting to have wings BTW. And back on track thanks to any and all willing to take on the challenge of something like this.

[Troll]

   Seems to me the planning has all been done a little early in the process. Having the venue for the Dog Pound locked down and the local dealer/vendor participation cemented are good first steps, that would be a solid foundation to build on. Little details (which can change, and often do) planned too far in advance will make it more of a chore for the sponsors than it should be. I, for one, really appreciate your work and creativity. Without you, there would be no Drift-In....Hearty round of applause for Scott!!!....Maybe it's time for everyone concerned to take a step back and relax. The dates, times and places are set...now it's time to take a deep breath and consider the next features...like the rides and sights to visit in the area...Getting bogged down in little details at this point is probably more than just counterproductive...This is supposed to be fun, right???/

[rideon]

Before I get started let me say as I often do, my opinion is free and usually worth even less.

To this point I have remained quiet and out of site. I plead guilty to having created the monster known and the Drift In.  I made a statement on the VDOG and Delphi forums in the fall of 2000 after returning from the VROC Four Corners Rally  in Durango, CO. I met up w/ Drifter Denny from Washington an couple of other Drifter Riders. By and large we felt like outcasts as most of the other Vulcan Riders made snide comments or simply pretty much ignored us as the Drifter was kind of the bastard child of the Vulcan lineup.

I asked if there were any interest in having a rally for Drifter riders so that we could meet those we had conversed with on the forums before mentioned. Seemingly many were very interested in doing such a thing. When asked if anyone would be interested in doing the organizing things got pretty silent in a hurry. Being the fool that most who know me to be I stepped forward and offered my services. The VDOG pile on that resulted indicated there was a good deal of interest in such a thing.

Being that I am from eastern Nebraska my first inclination was that few would make haste to roll into the corn, soy bean fields and feedlots of the bread basket of America. Anyone who has the displeasure of riding through this fair state will attest to my assertions, it ain't hell but you can see it from here. I had to find a place to hold this thing and my attendance at a Virago rally in Galena, Ill allowed me to see some pretty impressive rides. Prairie du Chien (field of the dog in French) seemed a fitting location.

After doing a ton of scouting, planning, contacting local merchants, et. 500 miles from my home I prayed that it wouldn't be a total disaster. At the banquet at the end of it all I asked who would like to do the next one. The room of about 60 was dead silent but all eyes were fixed on me. Then some fool said "you are ding it next year." After the roar of agreement subsided, I agreed but said it would only happen with the assistance of others so that I could have time to spend seeing that as many as possible could have their needs tended to. DI '02 was even larger with about 80 in attendance and enjoyed by most all. I insisted this was my last one that in order for it to continue someone else would have to host. The rest is history. I got hooked into doing several more when no one stepped forward to host.

The continuance of the beast has carried on due to the fact that it has become somewhat of a family of Drifter riders and more like a reunion of that family than a rally. The process and events have evo0lved over time due to discussion and agreement among the attendees on how to do things, not on a unilateral decision making process as seems to have occurred lately. Usually someone has come up with an idea with regards to the banquet, raffle, rides, etc. then discussed among those who have regularly attended and been involved in the administration of the event then shared with the rest of the group for feedback before things were changed. People have taken on roles in one manner or another in helping to administer this thing. I feel deeply indebted to a few who have always stepped up to the plate to help it succeed so that it continues today.

True, we have no officers, committees, etc. who make the decisions but we have allowed the group to be involved in the decision making process. After the first year the rally logo has always been put up for all or any to get involved. I believe Chief 1500ci made a comment about it not happening in 2013 but it is my understanding no submissions were made for one reason or another.

Over the past week or so I have watched the forums (don't do face book or twitter) and there has been a bit of contention on the planning and organization on the 2015 drift In. I do not own the rally or want to be the boss or final decision maker regarding it. I may well have the copyright to the name as I created it but have intentionally kept my distance as I feel it is a group event, not a personal one. I believe that all conversation and discussion should be made in public and in one location so that there is no suspicion of  dealings in the shadows as to create any further dissension. With this going on in two forums and two facebook locations I believe that it splinters the whole process of the group being involved and knowing what is being discussed. I have seen posts of people saying they will not be in attendance next year because of what has been occurring.

It is best remembered it is better to build bridges than to burn them. We humans are creatures of habit. Familiarity is our comfort zone. When peoples toes are stepped on they either lunge into the fight or they simply go away and most often will do the later. Being that the Drift In is about 1. The Drifter and 2. The people who ride them we need to maintain a cohesive community, I don't think it is wise to be driving wedges between them. If folks become uncomfortable with the process they will tend to move on to where feel better served or happier. What do we want and what will occur to keep it going?

RideOn

[CDNRatMan]

  Troll this could be a long ride for me ......You,  jmbo and then GB....

[Troll]

I'm a bit of a traditionalist, but I'm also open to new things. Some of the ideas you posted sounded very interesting, and the new ones were intriguing, as well. Like I said, for me it's all about the ride...the ride there, the rid back, and what ever riding is done during the rally... This is NOT Sturgis....(I wouldn't go if it even reminded me of it), so take it easy and just see what develops over time...New people, new places, old faces, it's all part of the experience. I will tell you this much: I've been riding since '63, and except for a few times when I had no choice, I ALWAYS ride alone....Since I went to Helen last year, I've been looking forward to riding with the VDOG members....I never thought I'd say this, but THAT is a group ride that's fun, not a PITA...
The jury is still out on all that but I would like nothing better than to give him a shit burger and prove him wrong by riding to Kentucky next summer. Well Dancing Bear, it's all up to you how you handle this......starting today.   You don't live very far from me, so If you decide to go, I can accompany you just in case of emergency....

[racemom91]

CDNRatman - HA!  Thanks!

[CDNRatMan]

Chère racingmom pour vous chère dame

Je suis dans le même bateau que 49 , en ne l'ont pas été , je ne suis pas vraiment en mesure de dire oui ou non , j'étais près à aller cette année, mais a dû se retirer , mais je suis préparons à aller en 15 .
J'ai trop été impliqué dans des fonctions unité , l'escadron et des escadres qui prennent beaucoup de planification et d'organisation à retirer . J'ai lu tout ce chef a publié , je ne suis pas sûr au sujet des dates ou telle ou ce que les gens veulent, je suis demi à la retraite, et un revenu fixe afin de comprendre vouloir le meilleur coup pour le mâle et d'avoir à regarder mes fonds , comprendre tout à bien cet aspect .
Je veux vraiment faire ce prochain , même juste pour passer une journée à jouer avec Troll et GreenBarn . Mais ce n'est que le début pourquoi ne pouvons- nous pas attendre et donner à l'Organisation aux gens le temps de passer à travers et comprendre ce qu'ils font et dans quelques mois, puis peut-être poser des questions pour savoir pourquoi et comment se fait . Je déteste vraiment perdre certains membres en raison de blesser les sentiments plus rien d'important . Pour ma part, j'aimais le concours de T-shirt l'année dernière , même si aucun de mes entrées rendu à la finale , mais pourquoi ai-je dû les envoyer à Greenbarn en premier? Je vais laisser cela on aller si je ne suis pas heureux avec la chemise , il est facile, je ne vais pas commander un , je vais porter mes autres chemises .
Mais ce n'est pas sur des chemises ou quel jour on est sur ​​qu'il est sur le point de rencontrer d'autres personnes avec le plus cool vélo sur terre et avoir le temps de se changer les idées et de voir ce bling et mods de gens ont fait à leurs manèges .
Alors, laissez le drame derrière et laissez-nous profiter de la balade et le plaisir et la satisfaction de l'autre ........ si vous ne pouvez pas se comporter , je vais devoir obtenir Elmo en temps sur tout le monde.
mes coups de gueule se fai

[DriftinGirl]

Well said jmbo!!

[jmbo]

OK I thought I was done with this but let me chime in with my two cents. I've run a lot of events in my career everything for multimillion dollar New York galas to helping my buddies run a annual weakend car show (39 years and counting) Is it a lot of work? Hell yes! But the goal is always to make it a success and to insure people have a good time.  Here are a few suggestions that might help bring this back on track:

1) Listen to your people! Event planning may not be a true democracy but it sure as hell is not going to attract people if the first thing they read is "Not all will be happy how this is run, but ultimately it is our responsibility. The goal is to make people happy and give them a good time. If people feel that this is a "my way or the highway" event with little on no regard for their input or the things they look forward to, then they will bail.

2) Don't say no! Plan the event.  Focus on the good things. If you want to try new things or eliminate some old things then bounce it off a few insiders before you take it online. But for God's sake don't kick this whole thing off by saying we are no longer doing this or that because "Personally I never liked (it) so I refused (do it). That simply doesn't cut it.  If you are not ready to kick this thing off on a positive note then wait until you can.

3) Don't underestimate what people hold dear.  Don't mock traditions.  Traditions are important especially in annual events.  I have watched countless annual events fall flat on their face because "someone" thought we don't need that or why bother with that.  Find out what folks think are important and keep it going.

4) Never let them see you sweat! Behind the scenes event planning is just that. People want to look forward to a good time and not hear all the pain and agony that it took get there.  People have too much drama in their lives as it is.  Nothing spoils and event more than behind the scenes drama.  "The chicken is delicious!" "Ya but do you know how hard it was to get it? FirstI had to chase the chicken. Then I...."

5) Don't be afraid to reboot!  If you sense things are getting out of hand then reboot. Stop defending the problem. Acknowledge it for what it is, apologize for the false start and start over. It is never too late to rebuild trust.

That's enough for now. Safe to say I've been in the hot seat many times. When it works it's great but when it sucks you can hear it for years.

I have a selfish reason for wanting to see this work.  In June I fell down a elevator shaft an crushed my left heal. Needless to say this year's riding season ended for me.  Now the doctor is questioning whether or not I'll ever ride again. The jury is still out on all that but I would like nothing better than to give him a shit burger and prove him wrong by riding to Kentucky next summer. Well Dancing Bear, it's all up to you how you handle this......starting today.

[racemom91]

OK, just to be a pain in the ass: do it in french please 

[CDNRatMan]

   I am in the same boat as 49, in not have been I am not really in a position to say yes or no, I was close to going this year but had to withdraw, but I am ramping up to go in 15.
I too have been involved in Unit, Sqn and Wing functions that take a lot of planning and organization to pull off. I have read everything chief has posted, I am not sure about the dates or such or what people want, I am semi retired, and a fixed income so understand wanting the best bang for the buck and having to watch my funds, understand all to well that aspect.
I really want to make this next one, even just to spend a day messing with Troll and GreenBarn. But this is only the start why can we not wait and give the organization people time to shift through and figure out what they are doing and in a few months then perhaps ask questions as to why and how come. I would really hate to lose some members due to hurt feelings over nothing important. I for one liked the T shirt contest last year, even though none of my entries made it to the finals, but why did I have to send them to Greenbarn first? I will let that one go if I am not happy with the shirt it is easy I'll not order one, I'll wear my other shirts.
But this is not about shirts or what day it is on it is about meeting other people with the coolest bike on earth and to have time to change ideas and see what bling and mods people have made to their rides.
So leave the drama behind and let us enjoy the ride and the fun and meeting each other........if you cannot behave I'll have to get Elmo to time out everyone.
my rant is now done.....
I can do it in French if need be.

[racemom91]

Greenbarn, Troll, REO - -you're all good folks
That's it - just that.

[greenbarn]

WHOA NELLIE!!!   I think we all need to take a deep breath here.  This whole Drift-in 15 thing is starting to balloon up, and I don't want to see it "de-rail".  It's a fun event among friends – this year was my first one, and I'd like to enjoy more.  I know some people can't or won't attend, but I'd hate for it to be for the wrong reason.  I enjoyed meeting everyone this year, and would like to meet more new faces next year.

The problem with communicating on a forum or email is the lack of personal interaction – voice inflection, tone, etc.   Of course we all know this – but sometimes it's easy to forget- and we read something and take it the wrong way.  I'M NOT YELLING RIGHT NOW, but it sure looks like it with the caps on, doesn't it?  It's hard to tell the mood or intention of the person writing the message.

Ron, after having the privilege of rooming next to you and your lovely wife this Drift-In and getting to know you, I really think that you're a great guy.  And Heidi seems like such a sweet person, I can't imagine anyone being rude or disrespectful to her – shame on them, if that was the case.

On the T-shirt design, the dates and weekdays for the event, the white elephant, and the other issues, etc.  I've been reading about – I have an opinion on each of those- but I understand I did not volunteer to put the work into planning this event, so I'll have to take it or leave it the way it is.

I just think there have been lots of correspondence that has been taken the wrong way recently – and I don't want to see this cause further problems in the group.  I spent a good part of my corporate work career in "go between" positions – I was always stuck between QA and Production, Corporate and Division, R&D and Marketing...    I've seen this kind of thing a lot – and I've gotten good at reading between the lines and being able to see when people may mis-understand someone's intentions and then over-react in their reply.    There has been a lot of that going on, I think, in this and the VDR thread.  My main goal here is not to point fingers anywhere – we are all human and no one is to blame – I would just like to see us all remain friends in the end, and would like to see Drift -In 15 be a huge success.

[Troll]

  Relax. You have plenty of time to fine tune this complicated event. I have a few thoughts that might mean something, or not. I would consult with Scott Steen, since he created the event, and ask him for ideas..For me, it's all about the "ride". I absolutely love the trip, the scenery, the site seeing and the twistys, when available. It's more about going someplace and seeing something I've never been before. Seeing the people we correspond with and meeting new people is an important part of that whole experience. The food and the prizes, etc. are not important to me. Sure, it's nice to win something, but it's not a be all or end all. On that note, I think it might be nice to consider expanding the show categories. I realize this is a friendly ride in show, but a little wider field of view might be in order. There are just so many variations on the theme that a little wider focus could improve an already good event.  Just my thoughts, FWIW. I don't envy you this daunting task. I actually considered putting my hat in the ring for this one, but I just couldn't pull the trigger on it when the time came. Soooo, in closing, keep in mind, you can't please everyone, and each rally should be a unique experience......now take a deep breath, and say OOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!

[49Reo]

I for one say "well done and thank you" to anyone who takes on the responsibility to host this event. From past experience being involved with other organizations, I know what a load it can be; both physically and emotionally. As I will not be helping to get this organized, I cannot and will not have any "opinions". I sincerely hope to make it in 2015, as I have not been able to get to a Drift-In yet. I for one, and I know a lot will agree, am in it for the riding, seeing new country, and meeting others with the same interests.

Good luck, and many thanks to you and your wife for taking on this onerous task.

Just sayin'

[BamaBikerMom]

I think DKTime and I will pass on 2015 also... We would have to take extra vacation time to attend due to the dates and we really like to get the most out of our time. And it has been way to much drama and it is still 11 months away... so with that being said.. I  wish yall the best of luck and hope you have a good turn out...

[jmbo]

You know Dancing Bear you are right.  It's your show and you run it as you please. As you say "Not all will be happy how this is run, but ultimately it is our (your) responsibility."  Sorry to say as much as I'd like to get together with my fellow Drifters I'll pass for this year. Besides I'm at a point n my life where I don't need any more drama. I'm just in it for the fun.  Maybe things will settle down a bit for 2016. No hard feelings.  Best of luck to you and you wife on the rally. 

[Dancing Bear]

I most certainly did not jump down your throat.
We are still in the planning stages and you cannot imagine how hard it is to try to make a direction when so many want to go in so many directions.
You will have to decide if you want to attend and I hope you do. I am sorry about your injuries and hope all heals well.
Only you can decide what your plans are, but hope to see you. I do not jump down throats I just say it how I see it. I prefer not to offend, but I know sometimes I lack in diplomacy. The nice thing is no one ever gets anything but the real me. Some like it some don't, but I am who I am and pretend to be nothing different. You are correct we don't know each other, I hope that changes.
Personally I never liked the logo voting so I refused to vote.  I think decide and move to the next piece of business.
Dancing Bear

[jmbo]

Hold on Dancing Bear.  Look you don't know me and I don't know you. You are probably a great guy in real life so there is no need to jump down my throat with all sorts of accusations about my challenging your authority. All I did was make a polite reasonable request to reconsider the logo contest. You started this post to solicit comments or complains. Don't shoot me for making a suggestion.

I missed out on this year's rally due to an injury. I had hope to go to the 2015 rally if all mends well. I have to admit based on what I see the jury is still out on that until I know more of what you have planned.

[Dancing Bear]

Thank you for your concern (s).
Heidi and I were told this was our choice how to run this. I understand the logo thing is a big deal to some people, but appears not to the majority. I said if you want to present a logo it would be considered.
The thing is Heidi and I have to lay out the money up front and since it is our money up front we need to control our costs, not allow our money to be spent by others. The more on the logo the more the cost of the shirts up front and to each person who buys the shirt. The cost will be passed along to the people who want a shirt. There are people on fixed incomes, such as Heidi and me that need to be concerned about paying out.
If you want to submit a logo, we never said you could not, but as far as having a lot of people involved in how we spend our money, NO WAY!
I know there are others on a fixed income that will have problems paying for the white elephant gift exchange that has been proposed. Heidi and I understand that, our finances need to be watched too and if we have people voting in an exceptional logo that drives the prices of the shirts up you will not appreciate that either.

Not all will be happy how this is run, but ultimately it is our responsibility. All we ask is that you come and enjoy for a minimal cost and a maximum pleasure.
Ron (Dancing Bear)