Hi all,
So I put the key in, turn it on and all the lights come on and you can hear the fuel pressurize etc..
But my oil light stays on after all the other lights go out and when I try to start it I get nothing.
I can hear a slight click at the starter but I get no spark at all and no signs of starting.
What should I check first?
Normally when I first turn the key on my signals are on and I have to stop them, thats just how it has always been since I got the bike
I went for a ride yesterday, took a few stops and everything was great, the bike sounded and felt good.
I parked it and went to bed.
Today I went out and polished it a little while the clouds were clearing and after a while it warmed up so I decided to go for a ride.
But it wont start.
I looked at all the wires from the starter and to the battery, I checked the fuse and all the connections everything looks normal and seems to be the way it was.
Could it be as simple as my battery is dead?
I dont have a tester here.
can I jump it with a car? I didn't want to try that unless I hear it is ok to do.
Normally the bike starts right up, and yesterday especially yesterday I noted it started really nice.
So I am baffled at the moment, any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Lump
Sounds like a dead battery....check kill switch, side stand & clutch switches as well. AND! the wires / connections to all of them.
Ask a friend? for a volt meter [DVOM] do you have a test light?..if so put it across the battery, wire clip to negative ,point to positive, see how bright it is ?
You can jump start from anything 12 volt,....but be extremely careful. Jumping from a mower,garden tractor would be better. [Caution] the larger cable clamps can touch things you do not want to touch Do you have a battery charger?..if so what kind? If it is a batt/tender,...or some other low output type,.. hook it up overnight.
Ron
Thanks for the reply,
That would be great if it is a dead battery.
I would hate to think of anything else it could be, I shut it off and walked away and went back to start it and it is dead so..
No I dont have a battery tender or charger I am going to call a friend now and see if he has one I can try.
I checked all the wiring I can think of and all the connections everything seems ok, everything else seems to work.
What about trying to bump start it, how fast do I need to get it going?
I have about 20 feet I can push it and try to pop it in 2nd.
Thanks again,
Lump
While you were polishing,..you didn't bump it into gear by accident did ya?.....[in other words, it is in neutral?]
Darn near impossible to bump start a fuel injected bike. Although the pump is running?...{IF} it is the battery, likely not enough current to purge & feed the injectors as well as fire the ignition.
Ron
Well I went back through everything I touched when polishing and nothing was messed with, I double checked all my plug points, sensors, and stuff, everything looks good.
I just found it strange to go like that, I didnt leave the key in it or anything, and it seemed fine yesterday.
I tried to pop it, lol no way thats happening.
I am going to grab a tender and if I can afford it and a new battery, but that will have to wait til next week.
Oh well, I cant get a hold of anyone right now that might have a tender, tester or something I can jump it with.
Thanks for the input I appreciate it.
Talk to you later,
Lump
First, if you jump with a car, make sure the car is NOT running. Just jump from the battery.
Check the connections on the clutch handle switch box. It might very well be the battery. Sometimes, it will charge but not hold the charge under load.
Did you say whenever you start the bike the turn signals will be flashing and you have to turn them off?
Yeah I noticed it yesterday when it didn't do it.
Normally it does, I put in the key and turn it and when all my lights come on and the dash lights up, the left turn signal was going, and I would have to cancel it.
Yesterday and so far today while messing with it, it hasn't done that.
Now that we are talking about it I am going to go try it again in a minute, waiting for the rain to let up, it keeps raining for 20 minutes and then clears up for an hour, on and off all day.
But I will go try it again in a few minutes and see.
I have my car here now, a chevy cavalier, with it off, will it be ok to try and jump start it?
Lump
Hey Chief,
So I went out again to make sure, and when I start the key the turn signals light but arent flashing.
Previously the left signal woudl be flashing when I turned it and I would have to cancel it.
I am not going to jump it unless the rain stops.
Lump
Ok, I went out after the rain stopped.
I can not start it even with a jump from two different cars.
I called autozone to see if they can test the batter for me and they said not without the cold cranking amps and stuff as they need the info for their computer and he said motorcycle batteries usually dont label that info, I checked and he is right it doesnt say anywhere on it.
So what now?
Just buy a battery and hope for the best?
Thats all fine and good and probably a good idea, I just cant afford one until Thursday so it looks like I am parked for the weekend an next week I guess, ugh.
Does anyone know what the bikes specs call for for cold cranking amps when buying a battery?
IF I have that info they can test the battery for me.
I looked it up here but under specs I didn't see any mention of it.
Thanks for any info,
Lump
Well battery is dead.
It only shows 120 cold cranking amps available and thats not going to cut it.
I am looking at batteries for next week when I get paid again, I found a 450 cca battery for the vulcan 1500 that I hope will work, I figure since I added air horns and I plan to add a light bar and a few other things I should just go ahead and get a higher rated battery now since I am replacing this one.
Stinks how sudden this came though without warning and shut me down I was really looking forward to riding this weekend
Lump
Lump,
It wouldn't start? or wouldn't crank when you jumped it?
If you connected corrrectly it certainly should crank when jumping from a car,..good car batteries are 800-1000 cca.
Now if it cranked?, but wouldn't start.....that's a whole different problem.
Ron
What VN1500 said... and here's some info regarding the battery... you can look up the specs for the specific battery on the batt. mfg site.
never cranked, only clicks the starter but no engine crank at all.
Turn he key, the dash lights up and you can hear the system pressurize.
Then all the lights go out except neutral and the oil light.
Then I click the kill switch down and try the starter switch and only get a clicking from the starter and only one click per try, its not like a starter just clicking away.
What else could it be?
The battery shows only 120 cranking amps available through the tester.
I guess the cheesy jumper cables I have here could also be part of the problem but I dont know.
Let me know what else you think it could be.
Thanks
Lump
This is gonna sound strange, but take a hammer, preferably a little one, and tap the starter motor at the commutator end ( end away from the engine) TAP it a couple of times...could have a stuck brush
Lump,
What Troll said +...if connected correctly from an auto battery and it still wont crank?...You need to start tracing wiring to & from the Ignition switch,starter relay, check all grounds [closely],double check, that's double check, all wiring for the safety switches, etc, & so-on.
If your not well experienced?..you might need to get some help from someone more familiar....Good Luck!!
Ron
Lump,
You found a 450 CCA battery! Which one is it? Best I have found is 310CCA.
Hey Griz, heading out to the bike with a hammer now, lol that sounds ugly.
Yes I found this batter,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190280867481&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190280867481&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)
claims 450 cca, I didn't read closely or anything I was just bookmarking batteries to get an idea of price.
Anyway that link goes to the one I wsa looking at.
Lump
anyway I moved the recently relocated rectifier out of the way to reach teh starter and tried the tapping technique, but even then without a jump or something it wont crank at all, I have to go out for a few mothers day hours, but this afternoon when I get back I will try it again and try jumping it too.
Thanks for the tips and ideas, I am psyched to see if this works, I know in my old 75 lt camaro back in the day I would have to bang on the starter sometimes to get it to turn over, that was the last sign before I had to replace it , lol. ah the good ole days where a hammer started your car.
Lump
Lumper
Be careful of that battery for 2 reasons, first it is for the BUBF series, that battery is longer and narrower than the Drifter's. secondly it is a GEL Cell type; The Gel Cell excels in slow discharge rates and slightly higher ambient operating temperatures. The big issue with Gel Batteries that must be addressed is the CHARGE PROFILE. The battery charger being used to recharge the battery has to be designed or adjustable for Gel Cell Batteries. If you are using an motorcycle alternator to recharge a true Gel Cell a special regulator must be installed. A slower charge rate is necessary. Gel Cell Batteries must be recharged correctly or the battery will suffer premature failure
Left off the battery info...
http://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/drifterparts.html (http://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/drifterparts.html)
If the engine will not "crank" - crank means engine turns over there are a few things which might be wrong...
1) blown main fuse - but you have power, so that isn't it.
2) Discharged battery -
3) Defective starter, starter relay. You hear a click, so I'd rule out #2 before proceeding.
There are more serious engine problems which might be the cause, but you need to eliminate these first.
Ok, thanks
really I had no idea yet which battery to go with, I just saw the claim that it was 450 cca and thought, wow thats pretty awesome if I am going to add more accessories, but I dont have the money until later this week and I will most likely get something local.
I found a 230 cca at autozone for 99.00 but I am going to look more carefully and learn more about what makes a good battery for my bike before I buy anything.
I am going out now to try and jump it after tapping the starter, wish me luck, I hope it starts but if not I really hope this is only a battery.
Nothing else makes much sense since it was fine when I shut it off and I cant see any signs of melting wires, odd things with the electrical, etc..
I will let you know if this works though.
Lump
Thanks for the info, I am going to try and eliminate the battery as the culprit or identify it as the case may be and let you know.
Lump
If it is only the battery, it will start with a jump... remember DO NOT START THE CAR! You may have to let the bike battery charge for a minute or two.
Bad batteries do weird things.
ok, well it wont start with a jump from a car or truck that is not running.
The clicking seems like it is coming from under the tank or between the heads, not the starter.
I am getting kinda discouraged here, I guess thats par for the course though so I am trying to think positive.
Without a manual there isnt a lot can check, I mean I can follow the wiring around and look for breaks, splits, burns, shorts, etc.. but I haven't seen anything like that yet.
I temporarily disconnected the air horn relay switch from the battery and the tender plug so it is just the batter connected to its two main terminals.
What would you recommend I look at or try next?
Lump
Lump,
Is there anyway you can get a good battery check done? With a DVOM you should get at least high 12 volt reading,better yet 13+ just across the terminals. A hydrometer check gives more idea of the depth of battery strength.
The more you talk the more it sounds like starter relay. Hard to say for sure, not being hands on!
Ron
You Could test the starter in place, Since you have the battery disconnected already; Disconnect the lead on the starter; hook up the jumper positive lead. Be certain jumper lead touches only the threaded portion of the starter!! Then hook the negative jumper lead to a jumper battery; Hook up the Positive to the jumper battery, and finally touch the negative jumper lead to a ground on the frame. If you are sure the negative cable is good use it. There will be some sparks as you connect keep as far away from the battery as possible . If the starter is good it will crank.
Past this we will need a DVOM, to trouble shoot more.
Just a side note, On my bike when you remove the battery hold down, the tip over switch falls off. Your switch is in place correct? If not there is no chance in will run, don't ask how I found this out ::)
You have a tender on that battery? I'd invest in a manual. I use the Clymer's in conjunction with the Kaw manual.
First, since you have removed all the extra stuff on the battery terminals, see if it will take a charge or start using the auto. Make sure the terminals are very clean. If that doesn't work then...
Based upon what you've stated... you get all the power stuff and actually hear the starter relay clicking... that eliminates a lot of wiring, sensor and connector problems. It eliminates the main fuse as the problem as well.
Personally, I'd replace the battery with one recommended for the Drifter. I like to start with a known good fully charged battery.
Then I'd look at the starter and starter relay:
1) Check the starter cable for loose or dirty connectors.
2) Check the starter relay for loose or dirty connectors.
3) Check the starter relay switch:
a) turn on the ignition and hit the start button.
b) if the starter clicks, go to STARTER CLICKS:
c) if starter does NOT click... go to STARTER DOES NOT CLICK
STARTER CLICKS:
1) Remove the starter
2) using a known good, fully charged battery and cables
(ensure you use cables that can handle the load) apply voltage to the starter. It should run.
a) does run: check the starter cables. If they are good, then you will need to check the starter relay.
b) does NOT run: you have a bad starter and it will need to be repaired.
STARTER DOES NOT CLICK:
You will need to disconnect and test each switch one by one...
1) Main switch
2) Start switch
3) Engine stop switch
4) Clutch switch
5) Neutral switch
6) if all above ok.. inspect the starter CIRCUIT relay. this part of the junction box.
a) Remove junction box
b) connect ohmmeter : + to terminal 13; - to terminal 11 = reading should be infinity.
c) connect ohmmeter : + to 12; - to 11 = NOT infinity.
d) if ok Starter Circuit is ok, check starter relay .
e) if readings are off... replace the junction box (you cannot buy a starter circuit relay separately).
STARTER RELAY:
1) Remove the relay
2) Connect known good fully charged 12v batt to the + and - terminals of the relay.
3) Connect an ohmmeter across the starter relay terminals and check for continuity. Should show positive continuity with batt attached. Should show no continuity with the battery is disconnected.
4) If no continuity with battery attached, or if you see continuity with the battery disconnected, you have a bad relay.
ok, here's what I know and I still cant start the bike.
When I press the ignition I can hear a clicking up under the tank.
Its not coming from the starter if the starter is in the front behind the radiator on the bottom.
I dont know if I should take the tank off and look up in there or what is up there, but it sounds like a relay clicking to me.
the battery although it showed 120 cca it has a charge and sparks up good, lol everything comes on an my air horns work so it seems like between the battery and the starter something is wrong or shorted out.
I dont have a manual and I have never had the tank off so I dont know what is up under there or if there is anything I can do in there.
Or maybe it could be a sensor that is interrupting the power, I looked at the bike down sensor in the battery compartment, and I looked for the kickstand sensor and I cant see anything that looks wrong.
Now, I am kind of helpless until I can either get a manual or take it to a shop and have it looked at but I cant afford to do that so it wont be anytime soon, in the meantime I am open to your suggestions and ideas to trouble shoot to see if it is something I can locate and fix.
I am planning on going to Laconia bike week in a month so I have til then to fix it, lol, ugh ... help
Thanks for all the help already, I really do appreciate it, without you guys I have no contact with anyone that knows anything about motorcycles, my friends that do aren't around here and there the ones I cant get a hold of anyway, there out riding.
Lump
Well you know the starter motor is in the front of the bike, the starter relay is under the right side covers... either could sound like its coming from under the tank...
Well when I get my ear really close and stretch my ape like arms across the bike to start it the click I hear made me take the right side cover off to look and see what was in there, but it definitely seems up high and center not out front on the bottom, definitely dont think anything is getting to the starter though.
I brought home a tester from my moms just now but I really have no idea how to use it, it is a multi tester ac/dc/volts and ohms, I thought maybe I could test the cylinoid or starter if I could get to the wires.
I read somewhere online when someone else was having this exact issue they ran a bypass direct from the battery to the starter to make sure it wasnt the starter and I was wondering if I should try bypassing anything like the kickstand sensor or anything.
So the relay is under the right side cover?
I had it off and saw two valve looking things, lol sorry, I assumed they had something to do with the fuel system.
What should I do with the relay to determine if it is the problem?
bypass it, replace it, ?
Thanks again for all your help too, I really appreciate it, I just want to ride.
Lump
Sorry Chief we posted at the same time I missed that long diagnostic, thanks alot.
I will hit it again tomorrow when have light again.
Also you said, You will need to disconnect and test each switch one by one...
How do I test them ?
locate them and disconnect them and inspect ? what else can I do to test them?
To clarify from before, I said side cover, I meant the right side air cover I guess it is called, the ports that the throttle control are on the top and then in the middle are two cylinders with lines running to them and they are wired with plugs on the bottom, these seem to click when I hit the start button, I can touch them and feel it.
I am going to go through all the tests you gave me though and see whats up, I cant get a new battery until Weds or Thursday so I wont be able to see if that is the problem.
It seems more unlikely that it is a battery now though and more likely a relay or switch or short somewhere possibly I guess.
Lump
Check to be sure the plug on the clutch lever is all the way in and tight. all the current for the starter relay has to pass this switch.
When I got mine, the wires were just slightly pulled out and it wouldn't turn over (crank) even with a fully charged battery. Neutral light was on, side stand up or down, makes no difference, if this bugger isn't making contact.
is that the plug under he control and lever or you mean the actual contact point for the clutch?
One last question for tonight.
Is it possible that even though the battery has enough cca (123) to run my horns and lights that it just doesn't have enough to engage the cylinoid so it wont even start the starter?
And with that is there still a chance that a new fully charged battery might just fire it up?
Or is that a pipe dream at this point do you think?
Thanks guys, I really appreciate your time and help on this, tomorrow I am going to run through some tests but I feel like without a good battery it might be a waste of time.
I can grab a charger from my mom tomorrow and leave the battery on it and see if it will take a charge or not.
Lump
The plug is on the underside of the clutch perch, plugging in under the hose. Be sure it's pushed all the way in. I can email you a schematic of the starter circuit.
Troll,
Thanks I am going to check it now.
IF you want to send me the schematics, my email is lumper@snet.net
Thanks again.
Lump
Yes, the battery can have enough juice to handle lighting but not spin the starter... its happened on both my GW and Drifter... same year! Replaced both batteries as a result. One would charge but fail under load. the other would charge but lose the ability to turn the starter after sitting about 10 minutes. Both batteries were 6 years old. Go figure.
Just mess around up there around the clutch lever/switch box. There are connectors there.. I had this happen after doing some work on the bike. If the connector isn't on nice and tight it will prevent the bike from starting. All those things should be checked before replacing anything.
Ok, cool I am going to check again now.
I got a battery charger this morning but my luck it is old and doesn't work, lol.
I am going to check the switches and see if thats it, if not I am going to buy a replacement battery in a day or two, if thats not it at least I know I have a good properly charged battery to then run the tests concerning the relays and stuff.
Thanks, fingers crosses.
Lump
As you can see the system does not include any kind of automotive solenoid, or even a starter clutch ("bendix"), as such. The starter is constantly engaged but does not spin until energized. There is a 1 way clutch that disengages after the engine starts.
forgot to attach the schematic...duhhh
Thank you guys so much for all the tips and help.
I got it running!!
I cant stop smiling either.
You guys, even on mothers day were there for me and spent a lot of time pondering my problem, I cant tell you enough how much that means to me and how thankful I am you are all here.
So I walked back through all the steps that led to the bike not starting.
In my excitement I realized I forgot what started all this.
I installed an under the bar mirror that clamps on the bars.
Well dont you know that the mount is exactly where that plug under the clutch is.
I looked more carefully after removing the mirror and sure enough, I had loosened the plug while installing the mirror and never knew it, or for that matter I never knew the switch was there an that it would contribute to not starting.
I was really freaking out since I couldn't understand how the bike went from fine to nothing.
I knew I must have done something but what?
Anyway after I put the mirror on the other day I thought, now would be a good time to polish the bike before a ride and then I will get some pics with the new mirrors, well when it wouldn't start I never once thought about the mirror until you guys pointed out that I should check that plug carefully.
I learned a lot about diagnostics on this bike, things to look or, where so many things are I never knew existed, etc..
It was a truly winning experience for me.
And the satisfaction that it wasn't a relay, a starter or my battery is even better.
This did prompt me to test my battery though and see it showed less than adequate cca's so I am going to replace it this week anyway for good measure.
I got so inspired I fabricated a couple of brackets and installed my air horns and I also cut off some threads I needed to install some female threaded spikes into my stock mirror mounts and painted it all too, so I am now just literally waiting for paint to dry and then I am heading out to take a ride and see how everything feels, sounds, looks and drives.
Thanks again so very much, I am very grateful.
Lump
The best fixes are the ones that help you learn without costing too much ;D
Yep and you always need to start with the easy stuff first... that clutch switch connector has been the cause of more than one -non-start situation .
Really glad that was the problem.
Yippee!...Glad to hear Lump!
Ride safe & enjoy!
Ron
Thanks again everyone.
Lump
Congrats lump. The Dynamic Drifter Duo (Chief and Troll) avert crisis again. Another Drifter is saved from the clutches of the Dreaded Dealer. All is well in Drifter City.
I think VN1500 had it pegged way back at the start... and Troll is always good for a thorough analysis!
That is what makes this site so fun, everyone that pitches in is happy to do it.
I just want to say... should have come here first. I just reconnected my clutch sensor connector on the handlebar... and it fires right up. Now I am going to put my bike back together.
You guys are awesome.