Will a 2007 1500 EFI Engine fit a 2001 1500 Drifter???
If so I will buy the 2007 and put it in!
Been wondering the same thing for years. There are definitely differences inside the motor but, from what I read, a newer motor will drop right in to an older frame. The thing I wonder about is: how compatible is a newer model engine with an older model ecu? I've read people on the internet claim they've done the swap and the old ECU works just fine - seems a bit weird to me.
just bought a 2003 1600 EFI that I'm going to drop into my 1500 Drifter. I have read that others have done this as well with no issues, so we'll see. the new engine has only 1 mile on it...nothing wrong with my current motor at 40K, but I like to try different winter projects and I got the motor for a good price, with the injectors, throttle body and starter all included....
Quote from: OR Seedman on November 01, 2020, 19:09:07 PM
just bought a 2003 1600 EFI that I'm going to drop into my 1500 Drifter. I have read that others have done this as well with no issues, so we'll see. the new engine has only 1 mile on it...nothing wrong with my current motor at 40K, but I like to try different winter projects and I got the motor for a good price, with the injectors, throttle body and starter all included....
Can't wait to hear how this turns out and how you dealt with any challenges (if there are any).
I'll keep everyone up to date as things progress....about ready to pull the motor (tomorrow). Lot's of little things to disconnect and keep track of, but still a lot easier than pulling the motor from my 2016 F150 (which I had to do this summer)
If the connectors fit, it should work with stock ecu - makers don't tend to reinvent the same part for the same engine -
Quote from: Lucky on November 04, 2020, 12:16:53 PM
If the connectors fit, it should work with stock ecu - makers don't tend to reinvent the same part for the same engine -
The challenge is the ECU contains the ignition and fuel injection maps to optimize performance for the particular motor. Even models within the 1500
family used different ECU's - pretty sure the 1500 and 1600 motors would have different mappings - certainly for the FI. In practice, it may not make much of a difference but suspect it would make some difference.
Ok, I'm not a 1500 guy. I've got a 800...
BUT I'm just curious to know why you're ready to face all the problems (if any) a swap in of a different engine should give.
Is it because of a better condition of the new engine, or a cheap price you payed for, or is it just for the pride to say "I made it!"?
Quote from: OR Seedman on November 01, 2020, 19:09:07 PM
just bought a 2003 1600 EFI that I'm going to drop into my 1500 Drifter. I have read that others have done this as well with no issues, so we'll see. the new engine has only 1 mile on it...nothing wrong with my current motor at 40K, but I like to try different winter projects and I got the motor for a good price, with the injectors, throttle body and starter all included....
Please document the mod and send me the pics/info so I can add it to the mod section! Cheers.
Quote from: Big Foot on October 27, 2020, 18:54:31 PM
Will a 2007 1500 EFI Engine fit a 2001 1500 Drifter???
If so I will buy the 2007 and put it in!
If you decide to do this, please document as much as you can so we can build a mod sheet to add to the mod section. Thanks.
in response to the basic question of Why?....because I've always liked to tinker and swap engines in cars and trucks....so I thought I would give it a shot on my Drifter...plus I got the complete motor with throttle body for $1300. With only 1 mile on the bike/engine.
the 1600 is designed for more low end torque...the standard fuel mapping on the 1600 Classic is set that way...from what I understand, that's similar to the mapping for the Drifter. If I need to, I'll get the 1600 ecu, but I need to get the new motor installed and test with the current ecu first. My 1500 is out and I am now waiting for the 1600 to arrive. any issues that come up with the install and connections will be noted. When I am finished and everything is back up and running, I will do a full write up on the pros and any cons or issues.
Also, this gives me a chance to go through several minor issues, perform detailed maintenance and check the driveshaft status....
Good stuff :)
one thing I have discovered is that the 1600 has an inner and outer stator....using two rectifiers. However, the setup is the same as on the 1500, except there is an inner stator on the back side of the rotor.....thus the system puts out double the power...probably due to higher electrical requirements on the 1600 classic (there are a lot more stock lights and other electrical demands) I spoke to a buddy of mine who is a certified mechanic and he said I can just leave the inner one disconnected (or pull the entire alternator, remove the stator and put it back in) All the part numbers are the same, so either way will work. All the other electrical connections look identical between the two engines....I might just switch throttle bodies because mine is already set up for the aftermarket air cleaner....I'll decide after I get a look at the new one....more updates as things develop. If this does work, I'll have more hp and quite a bit more torque over the stock 1500...plus the engine is suppose to be very smooth running with very little vibration...
quick update on 1500/1600 engine swap...
the engine arrived in good shape....definitely is like brand new. I had to swap the fuel intake lines and injector mount with the 1500, due to different fuel line plug tank plug in locations (different fuel pumps). No big deal..three screws and your done. Also, there are additional vacuum lines and a valve line on the 1500 that are not on the 1500. So that's all done (and I get to use the new throttle body) and the new engine is ready to go in....hoping to get that done in the next couple of weeks.
Pic 1 - 1500 engine with stock fuel intake/injector mount
Pic 2 - swapped out fuel intake and injectors from 1600
Pic 3 - new engine ready to go in
Looks great OR Seedman, can't wait to see the finished project together and running! This is awesome!
If you look closely you can see the second alternator connection coming out of the left casing. I am just going to leave it inside the cover with some electrical tape over the end....my electrician buddy said it would be just like an wall outlet...AC electricity will be there if you need it, but no harm to anything if you don't plug into it....everything else looks like all the same plug connections...
I could probably pull the left side casing for the alternator and remove the inner magneto, but I would rather not have to pull it all apart, so I am just going to leave it...
Yes, I saw that. Good call on just taping it, no need to open it up.
Engine ready to go back in Thursday....had to lift the old one by hand off of the jack and onto a pallet..then move the jack over to the other one and pick it up by hand and set it on...those engines are kinda heavy! LOL
took about two hours, but engine is in and all connections are done. Now, oil, water, fuel tank and side panels to go (and right footrest with brake pedal)
Wow, it looks good!
I wish I had your skills...
thanks Marco.....I have always tried to learn new things....never had any formal training in automotive mechanics, but I have rebuilt v-8 engines and tinkered a lot....kind of learned as I went. I don't do auto transmissions, though....they confuse the hell out me. LOL. This has been a fairly easy project, but it is taking a long time because I have to be home to take care of my wife....she fell a few of weeks ago while walking our dog and shattered her right kneecap into 7 pieces...she had surgery and has to keep her right leg completely immobile for the next few weeks. that means I am playing house husband now (cooking, cleaning, laundry, shopping, etc.) plus going out to my office for a couple of hours a day....doesn't leave me any time to work on the bike...I am hoping to have it put completely back together by the end of next week and see how (if) it runs....fingers crossed!
by the way....anybody pick up on my hidden ignition key?
Sorry for your wife. I hope she's getting better, now (so that you're free to take care of your bike... ;D).
An engine transplant is a fairly easy project?!? :o
Geez, to me even changing a light bulb wouldn't be "fairly easy"... ;)
Quote from: OR Seedman on December 05, 2020, 10:31:50 AM
by the way....anybody pick up on my hidden ignition key?
Since you mentioned it, yes it's cleverly hidden. It kinda blends in. It would totally disappear if you painted it black. I also noticed that you don't use a heel shift lever. 8)
Wondering if you happen to know....are the cab covers (rocker box covers ?) swappable between 1500 and 1600 motors?
regarding the heel shifter....yeah, I took it off....too many times I would hit it accidently...Drifters are the first bikes I have ever had a heel shifter on...I like the convenience, but it would get in the way too much.
on the rocker covers....I don't honestly know...the 1600 ones have little bulges on the sides. Not sure if that is for looks or function. The bolt pattern is the same ( I was going to swap them because I have the Arlen Ness side covers on my old engine), but decided not to at the last minute. So, I am leaving off the chrome engine accents (leaving them on the old engine) and the chrome water pump cover. Those will go with the old engine, which I will shortly put up for sale. There's nothing wrong with it, but it does have 40K and did have to have the front bevel gear bearing replaced (which I took care of when I got it). I am curious to see if the 1600 has the noisy lifters....
Overall, the swap has been relatively easy and straightforward. I really need to get the engine fired up and get the clutched lubed up as I think the plates are kinda stuck....from sitting. As I already have the gaskets, if I need to, I can pull the right case cover of to check them...at least the cylinders had some oil put in them to keep the rings lubed....The little bit of oil that was left in the case looked brand new as it should have since the engine only had 1 mile on it.
Having grown up with a foot clutch/hand shift, and numerous bikes with rocker pedal shifters, I really find it hard to understand why people take the rear pedal off. The trick is adjusting it correctly for you foot. My FLHs had a straight pedal, but my FLT had a V shaped set up. That's how I have my drifter adjusted, and it's just PERFECT! Seems to me, with boards, using only the front for both up and down shifting is totally inconvenient and cumbersome.
I raced MC in my youth....so just having a toe shifter is what I'm used to....I was constantly putting my heel on the heel shifter when lifting my left foot off the ground from a dead stop....not that my feet are that big (size 11), but it would have been better if the heel shifter was about 1" longer so that I had more room when putting my foot up on the floorboard...it just seemed like it was always in the way.
Quote from: OR Seedman on December 06, 2020, 18:24:53 PM
I raced MC in my youth....so just having a toe shifter is what I'm used to....I was constantly putting my heel on the heel shifter when lifting my left foot off the ground from a dead stop....not that my feet are that big (size 11), but it would have been better if the heel shifter was about 1" longer so that I had more room when putting my foot up on the floorboard...it just seemed like it was always in the way.
I agree with Troll, once you get used to it you'll never go back. If you think it's too short, you could always cut and weld an extension piece in.
have the engine all in...filled with oil and discovered a slow leak from the clutch cover side panel..took it off to replace it and noticed that something didn't look right with the clutch...discovered that someone (the seller) had removed the new friction plates and put in old ones and also remove two of the 3 spring limiters....steel plates and everything else looks absolutely brand new, the whole clutch was pushed out and not able to spring back and engage....the crap people will try to pull on you when selling stuff is really unbelievable. Have ordered new friction plates and limiter springs....should be here by early next week.
What an A-hole! Sounds like you have it under control. :o
called them out on it after they b*%$#d about my email. they said they test run every engine when they get them in from their suppliers....I said if they did that they would have seen the oil leaking (gasket was non-existent) and they would have heard the clutch parts rattling around...so I caught them red-handed swiping the new clutch friction plates out of the engine and then just slapping it back together...they had to refund me $250 and issue an apology. So I'm now just waiting on the new limiter springs and friction plates....everything else is ready to go.
Good on you to hold them accountable. I hope the $250 makes things right in your mind.
Cool project!
I can't wait to hear what kind of performance upgrades you get.
I love my 02 1500 but it could sure use some extra juice...
The $250 makes up for it....clutch plates and limiter springs totaled about $135. So, by the time its all said and done, I have a brand new 1600 engine for about $1200.00. looking forward to seeing if the higher torque and hp ratings translate to the drifter and its cpu. If nothing else, having a new engine is worth it. Once that's done, I'm going to have some Vulcan 88 rims (19" front, 15" back) sandblasted and powder coated to match the Navajo Crimson red on the bike and get those mounted with WW tires and put on. the modification for the front wheel is here on the forum. Then I can go tubeless as well.
question on right side of engine...when I pulled off the right case cover, I did not see the small washer that is in the photos. However, since I am swapping the case from my old engine, when I pulled it off, I found this washer in the pic. It was not where I have it sitting because I did not notice it at first and found it when it rattled in the case cover after turning it over. My question is where does it go? this is the only place I can find where it would fit. Does anyone know if it sits there between the sprocket and the needle bearing in the side case that the shaft it is sitting on goes? I cannot find it on any engine diagrams.....all my clutch parts are in and I am waiting to find out about this washer before putting everything back together....
There's a couple of washers that are part of the clutch stack - maybe one of those?
From the 1500 Motor fich (not sure if the 1600's are the same or not): https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/kawasaki/motorcycle/2001/vulcan-1500-drifter-vn1500-r1/clutch-r1-r3 (https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/kawasaki/motorcycle/2001/vulcan-1500-drifter-vn1500-r1/clutch-r1-r3)
(wondering if it's one of 92022A)
OR Seedman,
I have not found an engine yet to put into my 2001 1500 Drifter. I started this thread. I am excited to hear how your project works out!! Is the engine you took out for sale?
Yes....nothing wrong with it that I know of...but it has 40K miles on it and I got it at 31K so I don't know the full history. I put a new front bevel gear bearing in (that's why it the bike was sold off cheap) and flushed the motor several times to make sure the crankcase was clean. it does have the noisy lifters but it runs strong and doesn't burn any oil....I'm putting the side case back on with a new gasket and then going to get it ready for sale. let me know if you are interested and I will send you some detail pics. Price will be right...especially if it needs to be shipped LTL, which can get kind of expensive.
on the washer....the center hole is too small to fit anywhere on the clutch...so, I'm still trying to figure out where it goes....no motor diagrams have it listed as far as I can tell....
OR Seedman,
I would be putting it in my 2001 Drifter. I am definitely interested. Let me know how we can make that happen. Big Foot!!!!
will do. I'm waiting on a couple of parts still, but I am going to put the clutch spring from the 1600 (new) on the 1500 clutch (friction plates are still in nice shape) because I ordered a heavy duty Barnett one with the new limiter springs. Also, one of the exhaust studs backed out and I have a new one coming (the nut was frozen on it). I will let you know as soon as it is back together and ready to go. I will be sending the new 1600 clutch slave with it as well since I didn't want to take the lines off of mine to switch them out.
All done except for the Rectifier relocation....bracket is on the way.
Things done: Swapped in 2003 Vulcan 1600 engine with one actual mile on it
Added 2004 Vulcan Nomad dual exhaust (very quiet...not sure about that but I love the look)
Things still to do: Swap out wheels with Vulcan 88 19" front and 15" back wheels getting powder-coated right now to match the Navajo Crimson paint
Mount new WW tires on wheels when they are ready. have new bearings and rotors for both.
Design a better and permanent muffler bracket for each side of the bike to hold the Nomad mufflers. Currently they are attached to
the saddlebag brackets.
I will be listing multiple items for sale at very reasonable prices here on the forum....if things don't sell, I'll put them on fleabay.
pics of new engine:
oh..and by the way, runs just fine. nice and smooth. had a dry lifter at first, but it cleared up after a few minutes.
Wow. Just freaking WOW!
Stunning result! 8)
Can't wait to hear how it sounds.
Big thumbs up - nice work! Have you driven it yet? (Not sure what your weather is like this time of year). We have ice and snow where I live and I have to go visit my bike in the garage to keep her company for a while... 🥺😄
it's actually very quiet compared to how it sounded with the V&H pipes....sounds like stock Nomad...
I still am waiting on the rectifier mounting bracket to show up, so I can mount the rectifier up front. You have to move it because the left side pipe comes out of the goat bladder right where it sits. As soon as that comes in, I'll mount the rectifier and put the left cover back on...
I have a short video of it running, but it's to big a file to post here, so I posted it on the MeWe page...you can here the noisy lifter...about 5 minutes later it quieted right down and now you can barely hear the engine at all...
Quote from: OR Seedman on December 22, 2020, 17:36:25 PM
...with Vulcan 88 19" front
Always wondered if this was an option. What did you have to do to get the front wheel/brake to fit? Are you using a low profile tire or did you change the fender position?
Quote from: OR Seedman on December 22, 2020, 17:38:48 PM
oh..and by the way, runs just fine. nice and smooth. had a dry lifter at first, but it cleared up after a few minutes.
Awesome!
You have to drill out the front wheel axle hole on one side to the same diameter as the Drifter front wheel so the inside spacer can go in that the axle slips through. The bearings are the same OD but the drifter's are bigger ID due to a thicker front axle. that's about it. The standard 19" Vulcan 88 tire and wheel will fit in the fender....another drifter member did this a while back...can't remember who, but if they are still viewing this forum, here is a shout out to them....
here is a pic of the other drifter I am modeling mine after....I saved this picture a long time ago thinking that some day I would make mine look similar...
If the owner of this pictures is still a member, please do not take offense that I have saved it and re-posted it. If you want it removed, I have no problem doing so...
Also, since I have access to a really good fabricator, I am going to design a standard set of mounting brackets for the Nomad pipes.....both stock and aftermarket. I want to make them as unobtrusive as possible, so I will have them attach at the rear footrest mounts and go down, angle out and then go straight back behind the pipes. they will then have a small tab at the end that comes up over the top of the mounting point on the pipes to attach them to. I've got some designs and measurements already worked out, but will have to wait until after the holidays to get some prototypes made....
Quote from: OR Seedman on December 24, 2020, 16:59:57 PM
You have to drill out the front wheel axle hole on one side to the same diameter as the Drifter front wheel so the inside spacer can go in that the axle slips through. The bearings are the same OD but the drifter's are bigger ID due to a thicker front axle.
Could you not have had a axel spacer of the right diameter cut to fit the wheel and installed new bearings with the right ID and OD?
Also, did you have to do anything to get the brake disk to work with the Drifter caliper?
the axle spacers from the Drifter front axle will work...it's inside diameter of the wheel opening on one side that needs to be drilled out to 22mm. the axle from the Vulcan 88 is a smaller diameter, so the interior spacer (rides inside the wheel hub) is to small to fit over the drifter axle. But to get the correct size spacer (Drifter) that goes inside the wheel hub, you have to drill the wheel hub out a little. I'm not really sure why there is a spacer inside the hub that the axle goes through, but I think it is to space the bearings correctly (the distance in between them) I measured the 88 bearing spacer length wise and it is exactly the same length as the Drifter one (70mm) so the bearings have to sit exactly 70mm apart. One bearing is held in place by a c-clip, but the other one is pressed in and has room to move in or out a little. All the various spacers on the axle keep it in the correct position. Or so I think......
The brake rotor for the 19" 88 wheel is the exact same as the Drifter...so no problem with the brake caliper....all of the front forks and single brake rotors on the Vulcan 1500's are the same from what I understand.
The correct ID bearings for the drifter axle will press right into the 88 wheel....so that's not an issue
back together and ready to ride....a lot quieter than it used to be with the V&H Longshots. Still have the wheels to change, but no hurry on those. Runs down the road really well.....smooth and quiet. Plenty of power and low end.
BRAVO! 8)
just a quick picture of how I hung the exhaust pipes. I have a template that I will be taking to my fabricator for a more permanent solution, so if you don't have my bag mounts, you can still use the nomad exhaust.
Awesome! How would you compare the new engine vs the old one in terms of power and torque?
well, I haven't really had a chance to find out yet....been pouring rain for the last couple of days..I only took it down the road about 1/2 mile on the day of the sunny pictures....I didn't have any of my riding gear and it was about 38 degrees outside...as soon as I get a good break in the weather, I will take it out for a break in ride and post my findings...
wheels finally got finished at the powder coating shop. Got the front mounted today....waiting on a new (correct) valve stem for the rear. Got really close on the paint match. Front wheel is a 19" from a Vulcan 88. Rear is from the same. Even though the rear is 15" instead of 16", the taller tire going on the rear will help fix my speedo error of 8% (should take it down to 6%) That's livable. Will be interesting to see if there is much difference in how the bike handles at high and low speeds.....
Looks really good!
What is the story on the airbox cover - is that stock on the new engine?
Cool result!
8)
The air cover is aftermarket....it replaces the stock fake one on the right side and completely removes the one on the left. The cross-over tube between the cylinders which sits under the throttle-body is also removed. I had one the sat horizontally on the bike at first..made by Big Thunder Manufacturing. I removed it and got a different brand...one that sits vertically instead.
Cool man nice work - I'm looking forward to hearing about the performance increase.
So am I...but I gotta wait until we get through the severe ice storm and bad weather we've been having... >:( I really want a nice day with a couple of good hours riding to get a feel for the new engine and new wheels....
I was woken up at 3:00 am Saturday morning by the sound of my beautiful Autumn Blaze Maple tree disintegrating due to ice accumulation. What a mess.
Hopefully the weather will give us a break soon....
Quite a project, Seedman. Looking really good. I'm anxious to see how it all goes in the end. Sorry about your ice storm--- we had a bad one here about 10 years ago and it took a month to clean up the mess.
thx. I now have the back wheel ready to go on tomorrow. Going to be nice out, so I plan on a little ride to get a feel for the new engine and the different size tires/wheels. Front is now a 19" with a much narrower tire . The back is close to the same as the stock size 15" 150/90 instead of 16" 150/80.
So...I was able to get both new wheels balanced and mounted on the bike by mid-morning. Sun was coming out, so I decided to take the Drifter out for a good test ride. Well, all I can say is WOW!! Quite a noticeable difference in engine power and pull....especially at low end. the difference in torque is significant. Also, it seems that the gearing is different...seems a little higher at the upper end, especially in 5th. Or maybe it's the quieter engine itself. I'll have to check the specs on the 1600 classic.... Anyway, it was worth the effort to me completing this project. I'm looking forward to getting out and really putting some miles on it soon. Also, with the taller and thinner front tire, it feels lighter in the turns, but my speedometer is still off....LOL
Very cool! I'm glad to hear it all worked out so well - please update with more when you can
Yeah, it's good to know that the final result just meets your expectations.
I wish I had your skills... ;)
Nice work OR Seedman! An interesting and good read.
thanks to all for the encouragement....I am looking forward to seeing how it performs on a long ride...especially the fuel mileage. I was getting an average of around 41 mpg with mixed riding....I'm hoping that goes up a little....
Bumping this thread because someone was asking if it's possible to put a later edition engine into an older Drifter frame. Thumbs Up to OR Seedman for proving it can be done!