Long story short.
A few days ago my spotlights went suddenly out of life.
So, first thing I did is to check the bulb lights: everything is ok.
So I started to look for the issue, going back along the hot wire, but while attempting at it, some more sh#t came out: the parking lights are no more working, rear and front. :o
The weird thingh is that if I switch the ignition key to the "parking" position, those lights work well... :-\
Actually I've found that the parking light hot wire inside the head light has got no power, when I switch on the key and fire up the engine and lights.
I know that the american (and canadian) version of the bike doesn't have the parking light, according to the manual. But I do sincerely hope that someone of you good fellas can help me out with this issue anyway!
Thanx you all, for your kind replies.
I really suck at electrical so I won't be much help sorry. One thing I know is a lot of those problems could be caused by a bad ground-- have you tried chasing down something along those lines?
Wait, I just re-read your post. So you're saying that depending on the key position the lights will work? Wouldn't that suggest that the key switch is faulty or at least the contacts inside? Sorry if I've misunderstood the problem.
Just went through my tech manual and studied the wiring diagram for a non US/Can bike.
From what i see is that there is only one RED wire that comes from the key switch that feeds the tail light,licence plate light and an extra bulb in the headlight assembly called the "city light". This red wire is fed from 2 sources inside the key switch.. the on mode and the park mode. If it works in Park then all your bulbs, grounds and live systems are ok and it's like Tom said, it's in the switch. The switch is fed 12v by the white wire which should be live all the time. If it was faulty then you would have nothing working. An easy test is with key off, take a jumper wire from WHITE to RED ( Not R/BL)
The US/Can switch appears to work the same except no city light bulb in the headlight system.
Rob
Thanx guys, for your suggestions.
I'll check the key switch asap and will report it.
Quote from: mittico68 on March 04, 2019, 12:29:07 PM
Thnax guys, for your suggestions.
I'll check the key switch asap and will report it.
Also check all the fuses. I believe the spot lamps are run off the Auxiliary circuit. If your switch is bad, I have a good one that I can send you for just the postage and cost to get a extra key made to include.
Let us know what you find.
Quote from: Texasdrifter on March 04, 2019, 15:05:59 PM
Also check all the fuses. I believe the spot lamps are run off the Auxiliary circuit. If your switch is bad, I have a good one that I can send you for just the postage and cost to get a extra key made to include.
Let us know what you find.
I forgot to mention that while I was checkin' at the spotlights, I've found that their own fuse was dead, so I've fixed it with a new one.
Still have to check the ignition key, as soon as I'll have some spare time...
Update.
I've tested the white wire that feeds the key switch, and it works well (BTW: thanx RobF for your suggestion!).
So I also checked the key switch itself, but everything looks good to me.
But tail and "city" lights still don't work, with the "on" mode... >:(
Worst thing, I've also found that even the stop light doesn't work! I mean: when I hit either the front or the back brake, I can hear the "click" of the brake switch but no light at all...
I hope it depends on the bulb light (I still have to check it out), otherwise what the hell is going on? :-\
This sounds like you have a bad ground. Check all the ground to frame connections. If all else fails try running a ground wire from frame to ground on one of the lights that is not working and see if that corrects it.
Quote from: mittico68 on March 14, 2019, 10:24:36 AM
Update.
I've tested the white wire that feeds the key switch, and it works well (BTW: thanx RobF for your suggestion!).
So I also checked the key switch itself, but everything looks good to me.
But tail and "city" lights still don't work, with the "on" mode... >:(
Worst thing, I've also found that even the stop light doesn't work! I mean: when I hit either the front or the back brake, I can ear the "click" of the brake switch but no light at all...
I hope it depends on the bulb light (I still have to check it out), otherwise what the hell is going on? :-\
Do you have a test light? It's a pretty simple process to test out a light circuit if you have a test light -- I think no tool kit is complete without one. You can try this and that, and change out a part - but much time is wasted guessing and sometimes there is more than one problem, which makes it hard to find. A test light (or digital volt meter works fine too, but test light is just easier for a lighting circuit) makes it quick and easy to trace down the problem.
Your problem might be a bad ground - like Texas said - but where is it bad ? if you test for power and ground at the plug - find out what you have and what you dont have - then go back to the connector by the front of the fender and check it there -- etc. -- you'll track it down.
I think I've finally found the real problem: after havin' checked the rear bulb lights (they're working fine) and tested their wires (BTW GB, I've got a digital volt meter), I've discovered that it isn't a bad ground or similar.
While checkin' out the key switch, I've seen that the electrical contacts plastic base is broken in two! And this causes the contacts to malfunction... >:(
I must admit that after 20 years of activity, I should have known that wrinkles can come out... But now I have to buy the whole switch case and wires, and I guess it will cost me a lot!
BUT, as all not evils come to harm, that'll be my spur to complete one of this winter's mods: the ignition switch relocation on the dash panel.
I already got a H-D ignition switch (black), so now all I have to do is buy some wires, make a new dash panel and read the discussions on the subject, over this Forum!
Ok, so I made my homeworks.
I read this: https://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/jobearIgnition.html
And then this: https://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/forum/index.php?topic=3625.0
But still there's something I can't understand: I can use the OEM connector harness, by wiring it to the HD ignition switch; I must connect:
- the (red) wire from the switch ACC connector to the (red/blu) wire that feeds the brake taillight;
- the (white) wire from the switch BATT connector to the (white) wire that comes from the battery;
- the (brown + yellow) wire from the switch IGN connector to the (brown + gray) wires that goes to the IC Igniter and the junction box.
I do not have to connect the (red) wire to the (red) one that feeds the park taillight, because it has got no fuse: but I'd like to have the park + license plate lights to work properly... So, how could I do?
Thanx guys for your help.
Mitt, I have been trying to come with a solution for you but can't. I have read the links you provided, studied them and then studied my tech manual diagram. I took me about an hour to figure it all out. The whole thing is very confusing ( for me anyway). Here is what i found:
The original Drifter switch is unique because TL 1(bl) and TL2 (r) are connected in the on position and fed only from the Alternator with engine running. When you go to Park then they are separated and TL 2 ( tail, license plate and city light) are fed directly from the battery (w)
The Harley switch can't separate and rejoin TL1 and TL2 .( I think)
The fellow that posted the https://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/forum/index.php?topic=3625.0 is correct about the wiring
I would also be concerned about the Harley switch because it appears to feed the tail lights direct from the battery whereas Kawi only feeds them when the engine is running from the alternator.
I was thinking that maybe you could wire a separate fused toggle switch to turn on TL2 but I am sure that it would back feed the current somehow. so I wouldn't recommend this.
I think that if you want Park then you will have to get a Kawi switch. SWITCH-ASSY-IGNITION 27005-1204 on E-bay from $140 US
I hope that I read my diagrams correctly and hope that my info is correct. Electrical diagnosis can be a nightmare sometimes as i have found out in my 30+ years of mechanics. Just when you think you know it all, something shows up that just stumps a guy.
If someone else would like to jump in and set me straight or back me up, please do.
Always get a second opinion Mitt
Thanx for your inputs, Rob.
Ok, so if I really wanna go with the HD ignition switch, I must be concerned that it won't allow the park position to work.
BUT, would the tail light work? I mean, the tail + brake lights.
Yes as long as the Red(T2) which is tail+ plate light, is connected to the blue/Red T1 which is brake light.
If you would like i can try to send you a wiring diagram out of my tech manual.
Okay, got it.
So, the only chance for me to have the tail light working with the HD switch is to connect the red wire (T2) to the blue/red wire (T1).
Correct?
If so, HOW?
Yes that is correct. Does the HD switch connector match the drifter harness connector? I believe not, so you will have to use the harness from your old drifter switch. DO NOT cut any thing off of the harness still on the bike.
Take the old Kawi switch and cut the wires as close to the body of the switch as you can. This what you will hook back into the bike harness once you have spliced it into the HD switch. Now cut the wires from the HD switch as far away from the body of the switch ( by the connector) Now you can splice the Kawi harness into the HD switch like in the pics on your links. The best way of splicing wires is soldering and shrink tubing. For the red and red/blue splice you can do this on this harness and I would use a splicer like in the pic i am sending. These splicers can be removed easily if some thing goes wrong. I also recommend dielectrical grease on this splice and at each end of the harness.
My pic didn't work so try this...........http://www.howtosplicewire.com/splicing-wires.html
Thanx again Rob, for all your kind infos and how to's!
I had already cut the wires of the Kawi switch (very close to it) and added the ohm resistor to its gray wire...
Now I must complete the job, by connecting the brown and the gray wires and solder them together.
BTW, the HD switch of my own has got no wires at all: so, I have to wire it to the Kawi harness connector.
I thought to try first the "brake light only" version of the Whole thing: so, I'll connect just the blu wire by itself and see what happens, once the engine is runnig (I hope!).
Then, if (as I think) the tail light won't work, I'll try the "brake + tail light" version: I'll splice the red wire to the blue wire (with the Whole thing off of the bike...) and see what happens.
I will report the results, asap.
Cross fingers!
Wow electrical can be such a can o' worms!! Good luck and keep us posted.
New update.
I ended the h-d switch job and tried both the solutions: as I thought, the only way to have the tail & city lights workin' is to connect the red wire to the blu wire. And it works!
So, the good news is that when I turn the h-d switch to the IGN position (see the Thunder switch graphic), both the tail & city lights are on. And if I hit the brake (front or rear), its light goes on too.
Now, the BAD news... >:(
After turning the h-d switch to the IGN position, I tryed to start the engine but it's been a failure.
I mean, the igniter goes on but the engine doesn't start to run!
So, could it be because of the spark plugs receiving no impulse at all? ???
As far as I can understand from the Kawi wiring diagram, the brown wire (ignition) goes straight to the IC Igniter and this feeds the ignition coils & spark plugs. So, could it be because the h-d switch needs the brown wire to be connected to the gray wire, this generates the malfunction? :-\
Awaitin' for all your suggestions...
I have not done this mod, or really looked at my ignition switch- so in the dark a little here. But, there are a couple of basics.
You said in your last post, the brown wire goes to the ignitor -- It looks to me from the diagram that it's the gray wire that should have the resistor and is going to the ignitor. Do you have this on the gray or the brown wire?
Are you sure your resistor is correct? It will have to be pretty close to work- I read somewhere a few years ago, this is a theft feature, I think.
How are you making your connections? Are you experienced at wiring? Do you know for sure the connections are good, either from visually being able to see (based on how you did them), or testing them?? Personally, I don't recommend the quick-crimp connectors. I've seen many many failures from these - you can't see for sure they have a positive connection, and they are prone to coming loose, corrosion, and a mess of failures. Solder and heat-shrink, or heat-shrink crimp connectors - either if done correctly are reliable.
Can you draw up a wiring diagram of what you have done??
You're right, GB. That's the gray wire...
About the resistor: I'll take a closer look at it, asap, just to be sure that is a 100 ohm one.
About connections: I'm not very experienced at it, but I've soldered the extensions of the Kawi harness connector wires and they look pretty good and strong. Next thing actually to do, test them... ::)
Then I've used the quick-crimp connectors for the red/blu connection and the gray/brown too. I understand that now I must test them too... :o
And here's the wiring diagram of mine.
First thing that I would do, is if you have a spare set of plugs, pull the sparkplug wires, hook in the spare plugs, ground the spark plug body to a good ground and then crank it over. This will tell you if they are getting spark or not and take the guessing out of it. Could be fuel related.
Greenbarn is correct about the crimpon connectors. Soldering is the best , but untill you get it working properly, the crimpon is at least reversible. Soldering not so much. However, I have run into 3 way crimpons a lot on farm equipment and most of them were fine. Di-electrical grease and tape also helps.
The resistor is for the fuel injected models...can't see why you would need it at all on a carbed model
Quote from: Troll on March 28, 2019, 07:47:30 AM
The resistor is for the fuel injected models...can't see why you would need it at all on a carbed model
:o
Never thought about it... ???
That said, I also remember that the OEM ignition switch has got a resistor soldered inside, on the gray wire...
So, do you think it could affect the whole thing?
can't hurt to bypass it and try. The idea of the resistor is to send a specific voltage to the "unused" port on the injection ECM that verifies that the ign. switch hasn't been bypassed.
Got it.
I'll try and see what happens...
Bad news.
After double checking all the connections of the whole damn thing, I've tried to fire up the engine.
No way, it doesn't start.
I've even bypassed the resistor, resultless...
And, if ever it is enough, I've also noticed that even the brake light doesn't work!
So, am I at a dead end? >:(
I don't wanna give up, but I really need your help.
I"ll try to help you out Mitt but only have a little time this morning.
I think that you said that you went out and bought a volt meter. We will need one. Does it have an Ohm scale? Are you familiar with Dc volts and continuity testing? Basically we will test the HD switch to see if it has continuity across the terminals and then we will test for voltage at the wires at different locations. If you have the wiring diagram I sent you, it will help a lot. Looking at the whole diagram seems a little scary so what I sometimes do is , clear my mind, get a copy of the diagram and then with a colored pencil trace each separate circuit with a different color. If you start tracing from the switch harness right down to the battery it will start making more sense in your head as you follow the wires on the page. Just focus on one circuit at a time.
I must go now and will check in tomorrow.
Quote from: mittico68 on March 30, 2019, 13:21:25 PM
Bad news.
After double checking all the connections of the whole damn thing, I've tried to fire up the engine.
No way, it doesn't start.
I've even bypassed the resistor, resultless...
And, if ever it is enough, I've also noticed that even the brake light doesn't work!
So, am I at a dead end? >:(
I don't wanna give up, but I really need your help.
This really isn't my area so I'm just going to have to sit back and let Rob and others help you. Keep us posted though.
Here's a couple of wiring diagrams. Just a silly question, but the kill switch is in the on position, right?
Quote from: rob f on March 31, 2019, 09:17:52 AM
Are you familiar with Dc volts and continuity testing? Basically we will test the HD switch to see if it has continuity across the terminals and then we will test for voltage at the wires at different locations. If you have the wiring diagram I sent you, it will help a lot. Looking at the whole diagram seems a little scary so what I sometimes do is , clear my mind, get a copy of the diagram and then with a colored pencil trace each separate circuit with a different color. If you start tracing from the switch harness right down to the battery it will start making more sense in your head as you follow the wires on the page. Just focus on one circuit at a time.
I must go now and will check in tomorrow.
I've got a volt meter and I've tested each and every connection for 12v continuity: everything was ok, with the HD switch in the IGN position and the OEM kill switch ON, too.
I've also got the 800 OEM Service Manual, and I'll do as you suggested for the colored diagrams.
So now, all I need is your kind HELP! :o ;)
Troll, thanks for those diagrams.
And, as already stated above, the kill switch was ON while attempting at the damn thing...
TFrank, I'll keep you posted, for sure.
ok, I was going to ask about the kill switch also but that's been eliminated. Gotta ask some simple questions first to narrow things down. When you say the bike doesn't start do you mean that the cylinders do not fire or that the starter does not turn? If the starter works ,then did you actually test the sparkplugs for spark yet? Also is your kick stand down? There is a safety switch on it. In neutral?
I know this is all simple things and sure that you have done it but i have to know for myself.
Looks like both the br and gy wires end up in the igniter box. The gy goes there directly and don't see any resistor it that circuit. The br wire ends up going to the igniter box, alt , and the fuses that feed the headlights, turn signals,tail light,horn and ignition system.
The ignition curcuit is fed 12v in by the brown wire from the key through a 10 amp ignition fuse and then out by a br/w wire up to the kill switch starter button and then to the coils by a red wire. If your starter works then the whole curcuit from the battery to the key through the fuse box is ok and doesn't need testing. Could be in the kill switch itself and an easy test is to check for 12v at the red wire at each coil when key switch and kill switch are on. I will test this theory out on my own bike today just to make sure.
If there is power at the coil red wires then the power side of the coils are good. Which means it's the signal to the other coil terminal is not coming from the igniter box My manual only shows a 12vcheck at the igniter box at the br/w wire. There is very little info about the gy wire that goes from the key switch directly to the igniter box. i am assuming that it should have 12v to the box but in the HD key conversion posts they say that it is important to have the resistor in.
Your brake light could be related or separate so lets get it running first and deal with this later.
Just came back from doing some tests on my 800.
Here is what i found:
With the key on:
there is 12v at the red wire of the coils
there is horn, starter, signal lights, tail light ,brake light, no headlight( but it comes on as soon as i hit the starter button)
Interesting about the gy wire, I tested it at the key to engine harness connector and it has only 5.76v. i notice that the gy wire is about a 14 gauge on one side of the connector and gets smaller(18or20gauge) at the back of the other connector. I beleive that you and Greenbarn have been talking about resistors in the gray wire. This could be your problem. Somehow that gy wire gets cut down to 5.76v . Nowhere in my tech manual does it show this, but that's what my bike says. You had mentioned that the OEM switch has a built in resistor . How did you find that out?
The kick stand safety switch works with the neutral switch, so as long as the bike is in nuetral this is not our problem.
I also found that I had given false info way back when this topic started so i will correct this now. It is not relevant to our issue right now but still would like to address it.
I had stated that the brown wire at the key switch is only live when the engine is running. This is false,as it is fed by the live white wire at the key switch. I was reading the electrical incorrectly. My apologies.
Seems like I am learning as we go along too.
Rob, first of all I really appreciate all your efforts to help me solving the issue(s) I'm facing, as I guess you've got your own daily problems to solve... :)
Now, to answer your questions:
- even though it doesn't matter anymore, I can assure you that the kick stand is on and the gear is in neutral;
- the starter turns on, as I push the starter button, but the engine doesn't fire up;
- the resistor (a very small one) is inside the OEM key switch: you can see it, by opening the black cover (you gotta unscrew 2 little screws).
That said, there's something that makes me mumble: could the issue depend on the fact that I used wires of different sizes to connect the HD switch to the OEM harness? I mean, I used a 2.5 (mm2 - 13 gauge) for the gray + brown wires connection and for the white wire, then a 1.5 (mm2 - 16 gauge) for the red/blu + red wires.
Mitt: i am retired so don't have any life worries. Also the more that i help you the more I learn about my own bike so we both win, I hope.
i have a good knowledge about basic wiring and functions but not so much in the electronic stuff like resistors,ECU, transistors etc. from what i can understand now about this bike is that the ignitor box has to have a lower voltage signal from that gray wire (5.7 v on my bike). I am not sure why the oem gray wire starts large from the key switch and then goes small at the connector. But the important thing is to get that 5v on that gray wire and i believe this is what https://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/forum/index.php?topic=3625.0 means when he says the resistor is important.
If your starter works then the brown wire curcuit is ok. Did you test for 12v with key on at the red wire on the coils? The front cylinder is easy to check.
If you have 12v, then you need to pull out the front spark plug, hook the sparkplug wire back on ,ground out the sparkplug body against the engine , turn over the starter and check for spark. Don't hold the sparkplug with your hand. Right now you are guessing that you have no spark but you need to find out for sure!
I know that this is a little extra work but could save a lot of worries if there is spark.
As far as the wire sizes i personally would try to stay with the OEM sizes. Not sure how a different size on the gray wire would affect the 5v
I hope that you are not offended by the way i give you instructions. I do not know the level of your skills so I have to treat you like a first year apprentice. i am trying to help you avoid mistakes that I personally have made when I was learning.
Don't worry, Rob, I AM such a 1st year apprentice, as my skills are very, very, very basics! ::)
So, my next step will be to check those spark plugs.
Thanx again!
New update.
I've tested the red wire of the coils and it's ok.
Then I've also changed the spark plugs with a brend new pair, even though the old ones were not that bad.
So, I tried to start the engine, but again no luck: the starter goes on and on, but the engine doesn't fire up! >:(
What else should I check? ???
Could it be related to the fact that the brake light doesn't work (its bulb is ok)? :-\
Wow Mitt, that really sucks. In my experience with electrical, which I told you is minimal, it's always one small thing that's eluded me and it was the key to everything. A loose ground wire a broken wire, some open circuit even stuff I know you've already checked but maybe you should go over it again I don't know what to tell you. Is anybody local who's maybe good with Car electrical who would take a look at it?
Quote from: Tfrank59 on April 16, 2019, 14:04:57 PM
Is anybody local who's maybe good with Car electrical who would take a look at it?
That's my last resource, before quitting my project. :-[
But I still trust in the helping hand of this Forum Guru's... ;)
This is going to be a strange question, but...nowhere in all this have you said you have spark at the plugs. Take one plug (new or old) and connect it to one plug lead, and then lay the plug against the engine. Crank and observe the gap. IF there is no spark, then the Odyssey continues. If there is spark, then are you sure you have fuel? You only need spark, fuel and compression to make it run....what's missing?
Quote from: Troll on April 17, 2019, 08:25:15 AM
Take one plug (new or old) and connect it to one plug lead, and then lay the plug against the engine. Crank and observe the gap. IF there is no spark, then the Odyssey continues.
Ok, I'll do it and will let you know, asap.
Quote from: Troll on April 17, 2019, 08:25:15 AM
If there is spark, then are you sure you have fuel?
:o Good question. I'll check it out, even though there's one thing that makes me think the bike has got fuel: after 2-3 ignition attempts, I can strongly smell the gasoline... ???
I actually thought you had done this and made sure your coils were okay. Let us know what you learn.
I figured all along that you DIDN't have spark, from what was going on. I'm guessing you don't (but you'll know when you check).
My suggestion is (assuming you don't have spark) to start over with the stock switch to see if it will run that way. That tells you if it's just the ignition switch install issue (which I'm guessing it probably is) or something else that happened by coincidence (which believe it or not, happens all the time).
Quote from: greenbarn on April 17, 2019, 21:28:03 PM
I figured all along that you DIDN't have spark, from what was going on. I'm guessing you don't (but you'll know when you check).
My suggestion is (assuming you don't have spark) to start over with the stock switch to see if it will run that way. That tells you if it's just the ignition switch install issue (which I'm guessing it probably is) or something else that happened by coincidence (which believe it or not, happens all the time).
You know what?
I thought to use the stock switch, as you suggest, BUT it's definitively broken so I need to buy a new one, and it will cost me 170 bucks! :o
That's why I'm tryin' to solve the problem differently.
I'll check that spark out and will report.
So Mitt, in my simplistic brain I would say, just for now at least bypass the switch--hotwire the bike in effect--to ensure that you have spark and the bike will run. Then go from there on a workaround if you don't want to spend that $170. Maybe it's not that simple I don't know, but just my 1.5 cents.
Sorry, I didn't realize the original switch was broken.... that makes it even harder for you.
I just got back from holidays in Utah. Lots of harleys but no drifters.
I see that you are still having trouble Mitt. As Troll has said, and myself also back on April 2 you have to pull the plugs, hook them back up, ground out the metal part of the plug on the metal of the bike and visually see spark. Just pulling the plug and looking at it doesn't show you much. When you do this test make sure that you do not have the spark plug sitting near the sparkplug hole. If you smell gas then the cylinders may be full and when you crank the bike over it will spray out of the hole. If it hits the plug while sparking you will get a big surprise. Just like I did when I was 16 and checking for spark on my Kawi 125 dirt bike. Was looking straight into the hole at the time
So you have checked the red coil wire and it is good. This means that the problem ( if there is no spark at the plug) is related to the wiring circuit of the other side of the coil. This starts at the grey wire of the key switch and like I said, on my bike it registers 5.7 volts. It may be "possible" that if that wire had 12volts during your key swapping that it may have burnt out your ECU box. This circuit is the complicated one that signals when the spark happens. There are tests in the tech manual for this but are a bit more than i can relay to you. I would concentrate on getting 5.7 volts at that grey wire. I believe this is what that tiny resistor in the OEM switch was for.
Good Luck.........Rob
So guys, I just got back from holidays with my family, but before leaving I've found the time to check those sparks out.
And it came out that there is no spark at all, when I hit the engine switch button... :-\
So, I guess that the problem is related to the grey wire and its resistor, as Rob stated.
In my first attempts, I put a 100 ohm resistor in, as suggested. But now I believe it is too big, referred to the OEM tiny one.
So, next thing I will do is to check the ohm size of the OEM resistor and buy a new one, if it's smaller than the 100 ohm (as I believe).
Hope this will help... :(
You could try this for 12v reduction...............https://www.instructables.com/topics/How-can-I-convert-12v-down-to-5v/
This is getting out of my range of knowledge so you are on your own now. I still will be available if you need me to take some readings on my bike for comparison.
Rob
Thanx a lot, Rob.
But before goin' that way, I wanna try to (re)add the 100 ohm resistor on the grey wire of the whole (damn) thing.
That's because I've just checked the OEM resistor and it looks like a 100 ohm.
Here's the pic of said resistor.
Good idea. I will be curious as to what the voltage is after you reinstall it.
And just a thought........... not sure if some resistors come with a built in diode. A diode is a device that only lets current flow one way. Easy to check.... take your ohm meter and check resistance one way and then flip your leads around and check the other way. If you get a reading both ways then there is no diode.
R
The never ending story is still alive...
I've just (re)added a 100 ohm resistor on the grey wire (BTW, it's got no diode inside), but again no luck at all: the engine doesn't fire up!
I've also checked the whole damn stuff, with my voltmeter and guess what? I found that the part of the grey wire that goes from said resistor to the OEM switch harness has got ZERO volts! :o
The weird thing is that I can read 12v (+/-) on the resistor's lead that is connected to said part of the wire, BUT nothing after it... ???
Maybe it's all because, as Rob stated before, the grey wire needs to have 5.7v only, instead of 12v?
I'm really starting to get nuts.
But before giving me up, I'll try to reduce the voltage on that wire...
Until then, any suggestion would be much appreciated.
Sorry Mitt as usual I got nothing but hoping you get this thing solved. If your weather is anything like ours locally it really sucks I have your bike down >:(
Quote from: Tfrank59 on May 07, 2019, 12:00:55 PM
Sorry Mitt as usual I got nothing but hoping you get this thing solved.
Thanx, bud.
I really hope to get it, because I wouldn't like to pay $170 for a new key switch harness... :-[
Quote from: Tfrank59 on May 07, 2019, 12:00:55 PM
If your weather is anything like ours locally it really sucks I have your bike down >:(
The weird weather we're facing in this days here in Italy is the only (lean) consolation... :(
Well at least you have found something Mitt.
So as I try to understand.... You have 12v on one end of the resistor ( that comes from the key switch) but 0v on the other end (that goes into the bike harness)?
Quote from: rob f on May 08, 2019, 07:48:14 AM
So as I try to understand.... You have 12v on one end of the resistor ( that comes from the key switch) but 0v on the other end (that goes into the bike harness)?
Exactly.
And you know what?
Yesterday I bought a car charger, as said in the discussions site of your link, then I extracted the chip and added it to the grey wire, together with the 100 ohm resistor and... NOTHING! NO voltage! >:(
Then, I took off the resistor, leaving in place the chip: so, actually I read 11.30v on one end (that goes into the bike harness), and 12v on the other end (i.e.: coming from the key switch)... What the heck?!? :-[
What the heck is right my friend.
At least you are in the right area. Not sure why the chip is reading 11.3. Looks like the 100 ohms is to much resistance and that is why you have 0V?
I suppose the resistor that was in the old key switch can't be installed in the wire? Can you get an ohm reading from it?
I will go out to my bike today and double-check that grey wire for a reading.
Just checked my bike again and had 5.8v just with key on and climbed to 7 v while running (Grey wire at key to main harness connector).
Looked again in my tech manual and can't find anything about testing that grey wire.
I found this in a Vulcan Forum:
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 126
I am with Sfair on this one. You say you no longer have the original ignition switch, which makes me assume you have used the Harley clone switch in the tank console. At this point I would condemn that switch( cause I had one fail, poor contact internally). I would at this point short the white wire to the brown and grey( keeping in mind that you NEED the 100 ohm resistor on the grey upstream of the ecu). I had to do this this past summer to bypass an ignition switch failure and lo and behold it ran
Maybe if you hunt around you can find more info. Looks like the main issue is to somehow get that lower voltage on the grey wire.
Good news.
Last night I was mumblin' about the issue, while tryin' to sleep, and suddenly the light came on: why not try to put the OEM resistor on the grey wire of the damn thing? ???
So the day after I did it and... the engine fired up! YES, it did! :D
Now I can finally end the job.
And these are my conclusions, about the issue:
- the new resistor I had put in the grey wire was not a 100 ohm: and indeed, comparing its bands with the ohm scale, I can see it is a 100000 ohm (look at pic, please)! :o
- the OEM resistor is a 100 ohm, and this allows the 12v flow to fall to 5v: this lets the igniter to work properly.
- WHY DIDN'T I THINK BEFORE ABOUT THAT SIMPLE SOLUTION? >:( :o
That said, now I must try to solve the other issue that I faced, while attemptin' at the main problem: the brake light is not workin'.
I bet it depends on the taillight fuse: I haven't checked it out, yet, but I think that it could have blown up when I tried to start the engine without the resistor on the grey wire...
THe soap opera still goes on!
Any thought would be much appreciated.
Well congrats on finally getting the thing to fire up! now chase down the tail light problem--start with the fuse ;D--and then get out there and put some miles on the clock!
post script: I never open an electrical can o' worms unless I have no choice. This debacle you faced is such a good example of that (not saying you had a choice), where just a seemingly small thing like the # of ohms left you dead in the water for weeks. What a nightmare!
Right on Mitt!! Good for you for sticking with it!
It seems like our minds work about the same. Before I retired I would take my work related problems home to bed with me and usually at about 4 or 5 in the morning my subconscious would come up with an answer. Funny how the brain works.
The brake light should be an easy fix for you now, especially now that you are an electrical expert. ;D
Just follow the wiring diagram and use your volt meter at every junction. Doesn't matter at what end of the system you start at. I prefer to start at the power source and work my way down. It's like betting red or black at the Roulette Wheel....... got a 50/50 chance ;)
Rob
Thank you guys, for all your camaraderie!
I've checked the fuses box and it came out that the brake light 10A fuse was blown up... So, for once in my (electrician) life, I was damn right! 8)
I've then double checked the (damn) whole thing and everything's OK. :)
Now, before get ma-deuce back on the road, I'm gonna solder each and every connection, put on some silicon insulating spray and then add heatshrink wraps.
After that, I will mount the HD ignition switch on the dashboard and get rid of the old OEM one!
In the meanwhile, I'm gonna solder the Indian taillight's connections and then mount this nice and cool light on ma-deuce.
And finally, I'll be ready to ROCK! ;D
P.S.: I wanna really thank Robf, Greenbarn, Troll, Texasdrifter and Tfrank, for all their helpful infos and tips, without wich I could never have reached the finish line!
Thanx again, buds! 8)
Well you're going to be the go-to guy from now on on electrical I hope you know that. So don't sell your Drifter because we'll still need you for a few years around here 8)
Quote from: Tfrank59 on May 12, 2019, 10:08:01 AM
Well you're going to be the go-to guy from now on on electrical I hope you know that. So don't sell your Drifter because we'll still need you for a few years around here 8)
I'm not worried, at all, because even though someone should ever ask me something, I would just answer: "I'm a lucky guy, because of the VDR Forum, where you can find all the answers you need for your Drifter...". ;)
BTW: I don't think I'll ever sell ma-deuce. It's 20 years since I bought her, back in july 1999, and I'm still in love with her! Geez, if my wife should ever hear me... :-X
Marco, I've been following this post and I'm glad that you've solved the mystery! Hat's off to you for sticking with it and figuring it out! Now ride that beautiful Drifter! 8)
Great news, Mitt!! I'm happy for you that you got it running, and the brake light was an easy fix. Way to go, Bro....
Thank you guys, for your kind words.
This Forum is full of empathy... :)
Brief update.
I finally ended the assembly of the whole ignition harness, but before it I've changed the OEM resistor with a brand new one, as it was really in bad conditions and I didn't like to risk ignition failures...
BTW, if you should ever decide to go with the same solution of mine, remember that the resistor that goes on the grey wire MUST be a 100 ohm AND 1/2 watt: that's mandatory, just to let the igniter receive NOT more than 6 volts, otherwise it WON'T start...
P.S.: A short video will come soon... ;)
And here's the video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0uHvlz7df4
Good to hear that bike running :)
yeah great job! Now get out there and clock some miles on her, or kilometers ;D
Just read through your problems with the scoot...I'm glad you sorted it. Well done!