The bike finally arrived Thursday. Friday, went to the Secretary of State, transferred the title, got plates, and spent all day Saturday going through things. I've still got some things to go through (fluid flushes, etc.) One thing is for certain, I am madly in love with this bike.
Father's Day was a good excuse to go for the first ride to Dad's. The bike starts, runs and sounds beautiful. And as it was a 90+ degree day, was glad to see the cooling system up to the task. All good.
Except for one thing, and given the bike's reputation for smoothness, a little disconcerting. There is a vibration, best described as going over a washboard, at lower speeds (under 40) and light loads. Seems to smooth out under power and at speed.
I did a little homework here - the ujoint seems to be a potential culprit? Can something like this go in only 6600 miles? Granted, that doesn't take into account abuse or an inexperienced clutch hand. That, and the bike is a 1999, so there were perhaps extended periods where it didn't move much.
Admittedly, I have not inspected yet, is this something that can be done without a lift? I've never needed one before but obviously I do now. I have had a few shafties in my sordid past but never had to go into them other than gear oil changes.
Any other areas I should consider? Stock muffler and mounting appears sound.
Sorry, new baby and temporary Vehicular Hypochondriac, hence stupid questions. I do nearly all my own work, just not familiar with this bike (yet). That will indeed change.
Thanks!
Robert
Very sweet ride and you will get a lot of expert help shortly, these guys love a challenge.........
Great looking ride.
The vibration might be something as simple as wheel balancing. Before you tear into the shaft gearbox, wait until others weigh in on the other potential vibration causes.
Thanks guys. Tires are new, I'm seeing weights, but of course, it may not have been done well.
I'm actually hoping it's not the joint, will see if I can have a look when I get home. Will also check the torque on the motor mount through bolt.
Again, love this bike! Most I have owned have required some sorting out, maybe this one needs a bit more than usual. In any event, it'll be worth it.
The propshaft joint vibration usually come in at a bit higher speed, like from 50 up...Incorrect motor mount torque will do it. Start by loosening both front and read mounts and let the engine run at idle for a while. here's a list of correct torque values: http://www.vulcangadgets.com/files/torquesettings.html
Retorque the mounts with the engine off. Make sure that the rubber grommets are in place for the exhaust, especially the 2 BIG ones that support the goat bladder. Try to determine if not only speed, but on/off throttle makes a difference, Get the bike up to speed and pull in the clutch and let it coast down to the problem area...There is a resonance point where the vibe will be, always...mine is about 50 in high gear. Not really bad, but if you're looking for it, you'll find it.
Thanks Troll! Yours was one of the threads I looked at while researching. Thanks for chiming in.
Just returned from the garage (was out there before I saw this). The frame through bolts were at maybe 15 lb-ft - adjusted them to 33 per the manual. I will check the rubber grommets on the exhaust. I did a cursory grab of the muffler - there's a little movement, not rixed overly rigid, which I'm guessing is appropriate.
It's definitely at lower speeds, seems to smooth out above 40.
I think I'll ride it to work tomorrow to get another read, maybe the frame bolts helped. It's only a 7 mile surface street ride.
So maybe there's hope. Thanks again.
Is the vibration related to wheel speed, or engine speed? Could just be crappy tires -- Can you find the date codes on the tires?
Thanks for the reply.
The date code (if I have this right) is 4316. Not sure how to decipher (I think I USED to know how). I'm now thinking maybe its engine speed (below), and somewhat encouraged.
So I rode in this morning, paying even closer attention to what was happening. It SEEMED a little better after addressing the mount bolts, but realistically, probably just wishful thinking on my part.
Bike seems to smooth out a bit over 40, very nice at 50, particularly for such a large twin. Below 40, particularly below 35 in third, the washboard resonance throughout the bike is pretty strong. If I am accelerating say, in second, not so noticeable, letting off or shifting up into third brings the vibration. I pulled in the clutch a few times and held the revs, still there.
This may be a big clue. When I got to the office here, I revved it in neutral, a lot. The resonance can be felt as the rpm drops lower, just as it is returning to idle.
Harmonic balancer? Fueling? It seems like we're getting somewhere. And I can't tell you how much any insight is appreciated.
Pic at work - still a very proud papa. Love this thing.
Robert, on my '99 I had a similar vibration/washboard type feeling when leaning even slightly. I was also thinking the driveshaft/bevel gears, however with only 5500-6000 miles I thought this would be rare. I'm glad I didn't open that up because It wound up being the rear tire. It was worn in the center and the edges were kind of squared off, thus causing the washboard effect. The tire rubber was also old and hard, 17+ years old.
Tired of tires? ???
When I bought my 99 1500 the seller told me the tires were ok but had been on the bike when he bought it 3 years before.
I ordered new tubes and tires for it because I would be riding it from California home to Alaska and wanted good tires.
When I removed the rear tire I found this:
(https://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf325%2FJagLite%2FDrifter%2FIMG_3753_zpsjotiyoyr.jpg&hash=0aa679457a860d783a7f478bcd8ccefb312f9ca6) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/user/JagLite/media/Drifter/IMG_3753_zpsjotiyoyr.jpg.html)
A piece of the tread had broken out down to the cords.
Not what you want on a heavy bike!
A blowout on a highway can be deadly.
The general view is that kind of tread damage is caused by riding with very low air pressure in the tire which can cause cracks as the tire flexes.
My thinking is that (if you haven't noticed yet) checking the tire pressure in the rear wheel is a real pain so it gets ignored.
The front wheel is much easier to get to the valve stem but the rear is a challenge at the best of times.
I have 90 degree angle valve stems as I think most use and that helps a tiny bit.
I also installed the Ride-On Smart Caps that have LED's that light up to let me know if the tire pressure has dropped.
But, as you will discover, you have to roll the bike around and keep checking until the valve stem is visible below the fender.
http://www.ride-on.com/smartcap.html
I still check my tire pressure with a gauge if I haven't ridden in a while but so far I haven't lost any air.
I'm a belt and suspenders guy so as long as a rider checks the pressure regularly the Smart Caps probably aren't necessary.
I like them because I can just roll the bike to see the Smart Cap on the valve and if the light isn't on, I'm good to go.
Valve stem, are you down there?
(https://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf325%2FJagLite%2FDrifter%2FIMG_6479_zpsinbp6hge.jpg&hash=01db6cd5345080078e10147118f4bfb171534a23) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/user/JagLite/media/Drifter/IMG_6479_zpsinbp6hge.jpg.html)
Anyway, I don't know why you have the vibration, and it shouldn't be tire related if it goes away as the speed increases, but tires are the only connection to the ground and are critical so I would start there.
Quote from: rwantin on June 21, 2016, 06:08:43 AM
Thanks for the reply.
The date code (if I have this right) is 4316. Not sure how to decipher (I think I USED to know how). I'm now thinking maybe its engine speed (below), and somewhat encouraged.
So I rode in this morning, paying even closer attention to what was happening. It SEEMED a little better after addressing the mount bolts, but realistically, probably just wishful thinking on my part.
Bike seems to smooth out a bit over 40, very nice at 50, particularly for such a large twin. Below 40, particularly below 35 in third, the washboard resonance throughout the bike is pretty strong. If I am accelerating say, in second, not so noticeable, letting off or shifting up into third brings the vibration. I pulled in the clutch a few times and held the revs, still there.
This may be a big clue. When I got to the office here, I revved it in neutral, a lot. The resonance can be felt as the rpm drops lower, just as it is returning to idle.
Harmonic balancer? Fueling? It seems like we're getting somewhere. And I can't tell you how much any insight is appreciated.
Pic at work - still a very proud papa. Love this thing.
You must have a number for the code wrong, according to that, they
will be made in the 43 week of 2016....
Thanks again, guys.
I did check the tire pressures before riding - the rear was about 5 psi high - lowered to the unloaded spec of 36 psi. As an experiment, maybe I'll add it back (yes, it's a pain back there). Front was spot on.
Strange about the code on the front, double checked it, that was what was stamped on there, which is strange (must be REALLY fresh). :) At the rear, it makes more sense - found 5113. The receipt for the tires is less than two years ago. They are Continental Milestones and still look pretty fresh (lots of numbs still). They look like pretty good tires (I have had great luck with Continentals in the past). They actually seem to corner pretty nicely. Bike is fairly easy to toss around for a big 'un.
Thanks for the continuing education. Seems like we are getting warmer.
The unfortunate problem with bike tire over car tires is they lack a wear bar down the center of the tire. You will notice on a car tire there is usually a rib down the middle. This helps support the tire and keep the tire from cupping fro either poor balance, alignment, or under inflation. Bike tires (and some car tires) lack this rib and are more prone to develop cupping problems. Unfortunately once a bike tire starts cupping there is very little you can do to remedy the problem. On a car you can always mound the tire on the rear and get by. Not so on a bike.
Robert, try the steering stem nut. http://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/steeringstemadjust.html
I had bad vibration in the handle bars at 33-35 miles per hour when slowing down. Opened the nut, lubed it up, tightened it (two tries) and no more vibration.
regards, Mike (2001 1500cc)
Thanks so much - will try the steering stem thing.
Haven't had much time to test anything, but will be back in the garage this weekend.
Really appreciate it guys.
-Robert
Please do not tell me you have something more important than your Drifter vying for your time.....
Quote from: CDNRatMan on June 24, 2016, 11:01:26 AM
Please do not tell me you have something more important than your Drifter vying for your time.....
The stupid work thing keeps getting in the way, I swear! I know that doesn't make it right... ;D
Much to do this weekend!
Work, what is that? 8)
Work......It's that all consuming thing that both you and I gave up a few years ago.
:o oh that thing....lol....... ::)
Following up a bit on this. Just rode in this morning.
I did a few things over the weekend, interestingly, there was a noticeable improvement in the vibration on the way in to the office, but the washboard feel was still present, though again, improved.
I pulled and cleaned the plugs - they were pretty normal, don't think there's much here to do with it but noting.
The exhaust collector and clamps were one big ball of rust. I pulled it, stripped, cleaned, new sleeves/clamps, made everything nice. I noticed the rubber bushings, seemed like they were okay, and allowed a little movement, which I assume is good. Of course, wondering if retorquing them helped in any way. Side question - I like this exhaust, the way it looks, but is the Classic exhaust better? Noticed one for sale this weekend and looks like it is an exact fit.
The other thing I was thinking about - I added a rear rack that came with the bike - I liked the idea because it ties the two saddlebag racks together and limits lateral movement. Source of vibration? Not sure.
In any event, despite the improvement, it's still there at lower rpm. One thing I noticed - the resonance seems to be there even when the bike is stationary in neutral. Of course, there's no tach, but I notice a vibration at guessing around 1500 - 2000 rpm.
Anyway, feels like I'm getting warmer. And man o man, I love this bike.
try changing the fuel filter and a big dose of sea foam to clean the injectors.
This is still a v-2, so there is always going to be some "presence" to remind you of that. It's not an electric motor or an inline 4, so when you consider two 750cc cylinders doing the work, the thumps will always get through. These bikes are very smooth, especially above 2000 rpm. I rode H-Ds for 50 years, and this bike, with 106,000 miles on it, now, is smoother than even my rubber mount TourGlide when it was pretty new...absolutely no comparison with my solid mount FLs and FXs...
Thanks a ton guys.
There's something I had not considered - I added some Techron to the first tank (always liked it for injection), so MAYBE as I'm burning through the gas, that could be the source of improvement. I am also a huge fan of Seafoam (always have a bottle or two around), so I'll try that. And a filter as well. The bike fired right up when I got it, but it could have sat for some time prior.
Understood on the presence and big thumps, it's just that the washboard effect was, at least early on, pretty severe. And wow, those miles are encouraging!
Appreciate it.
This thread will go away eventually, I swear!
Gave it a big shot of Seafoam this morning, and a filter is on the way.
Observation that may be meaningful. I noted the washboard effect seemed diminished on the way in yesterday - it was in the upper 60's. On the way home, in near 90-degree temps, it was back in full force. Rode in this morning (about 70 out), and again, seemed to be lessened. So air temp appears to at least be some sort of factor. I'll stay the course with the Seafoam and new filter when I get it, does this suggest there may be some credence to a fueling issue?
Somewhere else I read that a vibration problem was cured by adding a fuel controller. My bike used to vibrate a little when I was approaching 130 km an hour (80 mph) but when I added saddlebags which have heavy duty brackets the vibration has lessened. Go figure! Maybe something to do with changing the natural frequency of the bike by adding mass. In case anyone is wondering why I was doing 130 km an hour I was in the fast lane on the 401 and that's the speed that traffic was moving.
Quote from: RockinRonny on July 12, 2016, 12:36:14 PM
Somewhere else I read that a vibration problem was cured by adding a fuel controller. My bike used to vibrate a little when I was approaching 130 km an hour (80 mph) but when I added saddlebags which have heavy duty brackets the vibration has lessened. Go figure! Maybe something to do with changing the natural frequency of the bike by adding mass. In case anyone is wondering why I was doing 130 km an hour I was in the fast lane on the 401 and that's the speed that traffic was moving.
You will be getting a ticket on the mail.... ;)
Years ago when I was getting my motorcycle licence part of the test was to ride on the 401. The official speed limit on the 401 is 100 kmh , the unofficial speed limit is 120 - 125 kmh which is what you need to do in the fast lane or better otherwise someone will ride your tail. When I asked the instructor what speed should I do , the official or unofficial he said " You do whatever the traffic is travelling at in your lane" so I did and passed even though I was doing 20 kmh over the limit. I have been driving at 120 - 125 and have the police pass me. You won't get a ticket for 120 but for 130 you might. Most people will do 120 - 125 kmh in the fast lane. I have never earned a ticket for speeding on the 400 series highways (yet). :D
Man last time I drove that highway I was doing 140 when I passed a cop on the side of the road. He didn't even flinch.
I used to work as a pilot and honestly the most dangerous part of my job was the commute on the 401. I don't miss that one bit!
I like to drop in here.
Go over the fact that tachometers can be adjusted or disconnected or not repaired all too soon, when the cable (a short cable for this matter) breaks prematurely.
Nevertheless, when the bike was not used for a considerable amount of time the sides of the cylinder and piston ring can be sort of corroded, not rusty like you have found on parts of the frame but sort of. There is no oil up there protecting it after a while. I rode my bike from a very rough engine to way smoother in 4.000 miles and much more comfortable in 3 to 4 thousand more. This is I think the effect of you reffing the bike idle and noticing resistance when refs drop. Or the weird change in experience with lower temperature and moisture in the night. So, why worry when you did not ride it much.
Check the oil level. You do that with bike standing straight up. Tie a mirror to the BQ cleaner.
Tires look new but also alike. Cupping is uneven in the length of the tread and can only be felt with the hand. It is caused by low tire pressure and I would not have it low like Manufacturer recommendation but rather as high as Tire recommendation. For some reason the Japanese want you back to the stealer. Some say the smooth ride sells these motorbikes. The infamous chunking of Metzelers is also caused by low tire pressure (among all possible tire damage) by the heat the soft tires are developing and being much sooner warmed up. Think about rubber flexing much and only wearing there where it flexes most. this will be just before the thread pattern. As a result many under inflated tires turn into cleat profile off-road tires.
Here is information that I kept as a reference:
QuoteFor the Drifter 1500, the manual calls for FRONT = 28 psi; REAR - 36psi (215 lb loading), 40psi (403 lb loading). (Bridgestone and Dunlop)
Metzeler recognizes the owner manual pressures but make the following recommendations:
ME880 - Solo: F = 38-40 / R = 44-46 ; 2up-Light: F=40-42 / R=46-48 ; 2 up-heavy: F = 40-42 / R 48-50
Avon - recommendations...
Touring/Cruiser models: Solo: F = 34-38 / R = 38-40 ; 2up-Light: F=40-42 / R=40-42; 2up-Heavy: F=42 / R=42
My bike is 350 Kg. I was at the town refuse or recycle dump. It should matter in tire pressure but on my 280 Kg Honda PC800 the tire would not get its intended shape any lower. The danger of high pressure is the tire loosing contact with the road, less braking and more chance of blowout. Blowouts are like imminent danger on bikes with inner tubes.
I have had a too small amount of oil in the drive shaft gear. I suggest you check that soonest when changing fluids. Also with bike standing up. For coolant (old over time, not only with mileage) I highly recommend Honda Type 2 Coolant in 100 percent bottles (diluting to 50/50 in account to what flushing water must be left inside the engine. Honda adds metal protectors that are no silicates. Silicates wear seals out and shorten the life of the water pump. Especially with fast turning water pumps. Honda invented the coolant when the pumps of Goldwings prematurely failed. The specifications of Honda Type 2 coolant are high, both in boiling temperature and antifreeze characteristics. The maintenance interval being at least twice as long and the price half as much. Only the color is dull, sort of black with green and blue.
I bought final-drive oil from Yamalube but found this product to be identical to car gear oil in every aspect, sorry to say. Other brands would simply have been unaffordable. There is no tax in the country of Barry is there?
I have had better shifting and smoother ride with real motorbike oil and a thicker one according to the chart. Motul 5100, 15W50. Flush old cheaper oil and donate that to the poor. You are doing fine and we hope you are with us for quite some time. Greeting from The Netherlands
Greetings Goose, and thanks for taking the time.
I have changed everything (including the rear diff) but the coolant thus far (looks as though it was changed recently, but noting the Honda stuff). I think we're okay on the tires, I'm familiar with cupping (either on used bikes or my own commuting). Changed oil with Mobil 1 Synth V-Twin, level is good (those little sticks with mirrors on them are handy).
I can duplicate vibration static (bike in neutral) with just a small pull of the throttle - the washboard effect is obviously more noticeable whilst moving. I'm running seafoam through it and changing the filter this weekend - there is a small amount of rust in the tank which I will also be addressing - so looking forward to seeing if there's anything in the filter.
And then there is, well, just riding the thing more - weather and work have been fighting me a bit in this regard.
Again, this is a great group - and I hope to have this beast for quite some time.
What year is your bike? The filter is inside the tank on the "R" model, and outside the tank on the "J" model
Quote from: Troll on July 15, 2016, 19:01:01 PM
What year is your bike? The filter is inside the tank on the "R" model, and outside the tank on the "J" model
Fortunately, a '99 (J), so this should be a bit easier.
The thread that won't die. I swear I am getting warmer, at least I hope! ;D
I've been busy going through everything suggested in this thread. Most recently, the fuel filter (brand new factory unit) and a rust-free tank. I was actually encouraged by the crud that came out of the old filter, and hopeful that there might be the issue.
The bike runs fantastic (again, I LOVE this thing), but the washboard feel/resonance persists at low speeds/light loads. The bike accelerates and runs at speed very smoothly.
I realize, out of some thirty bikes, that this is my first big V, so perhaps a small part of it is the nature of the beast. But the resonance/washboard feel is pretty harsh.
The last thing would be the ujoint, but I'm not so sure as I can mimic the resonance with small throttle inputs (say, maybe 1500 - 2000 rpm) at a standstill. That said, I'm thinking against the joint, at least for now. It is possible it has tightened up (with only 6700 miles, the bike sat a LOT), but again, the stationary thing. If I need to tear down the arse end I'll do it this winter.
I'll continue to run some Seafoam through it. Another thought - service the injector/throttle body? Thoughts? Given the crud in the filter, perhaps it is compromised as well?
Appreciate it, and would like nothing more than this thread to die.
Perhaps you might want to look at your rear wheel and the Damper rear hub shock, part # 92075-1121 see if it needs replacement. Just a thought.
Quote from: CDNRatMan on September 19, 2016, 09:40:50 AM
Perhaps you might want to look at your rear wheel and the Damper rear hub shock, part # 92075-1121 see if it needs replacement. Just a thought.
I'll check it out, thanks! Everything is on the table here.