So I hope I am not repeating myself or posting two times but I was unable to find my previous question. Sorry if I am. I picked up a 2002 drifter 800 and it only had 4200miles when I bought it. It must have sat for a while. The front and rear fenders shake up and down. I had the fluids changed, new metzler tires, heavier fork oil with restricters put in to the front forks, I also had a rear progressive shock put in the rear. I have had it to the dealer and another shop. They told me it is the nature of the beast. It is not a wobble but a bounce I can feel in the seat and handlebars. I can see and feel with my hand the front and rear fenders bouncing when going down ANY road. I took the bike on some fresh paved blacktop and I could still feel it. The problem really starts up after 50mph but you can still feel it before. I had them spin balance the tires 3 times and "check" the bearings. I always wanted a drifter but I am regretting buying one. I have had a couple shops tell me "Its the nature of the beast" I think hogwash as they would not release a bike to the public that bounced like this. The problem still seems the same after all the work. The brakes do not seem to be sticking. Tires are both fully beaded. Tire pressure seems to not change anything. I have been riding for 12 years. Everything from a V-max to a c90. I have had front wobble problems with my c90. I smack the handle bars on this bike and it balances the wobble out fine. I am pretty desperate as I got this for 3k and have sunk a little over 2k in to it already :(. Thanks for all the help.
Mine don't bounce a bit. I have the rear shock set as high as it goes. Mine is an 01 800 with 11,000 miles. I wish I had a suggestion.
Did it bounce before you started the suspension work?
Tires unbalanced? How old are the tires?
ok I can not find the first post either. But I know a few people did check in on it.
My 99 800 does not bounce, I know that the first time you see the fender going up and down it is surprising. The amount of travel is surprising. Now to narrow this down is it just the fenders are moving? Are they loose? Are they missing the mounting brackets inside the fenders?
Reading what you have done, fluid changed, new tires, heavier oil in the front forks, as for restricters are those spacers? New rear shock, those all sound like you have done what needs doing. It is not the nature of the beast because all the 800 owners here will tell you it is not so. I would love to take it for a ride and see and feel what it actually does.
Were are you located?
I think you need to have somebody ride next to you and see if they can see the problem.
Like Ratman said, the first thing I'd do is verify that all of the proper mounting screws and brackets are all there and done up properly. You can see exploded views of your entire bike here to see if anything is not as it should be: http://www.ronayersmotorcycles.com/fiche_select2.asp?category=Motorcycles&make=Kawasaki&year=2002&fveh=9082
I have been mulling this over all day or since the post was made and I am now to the part of
QuoteThe front and rear fenders shake up and down.
so not the bike is shaking it is just the fenders?
Quote It is not a wobble but a bounce I can feel in the seat and handlebars.
ok so what is bouncing the whole bike or is it just the fenders?
if it is the fenders then my first guess would be that some of the hidden brackets inside the fenders are missing or not secured properly. I went out and grabbed both my fenders and they are some stiff, so not sure about what else it could be.
I would go and check all the fender mounts first thing and go from there. If possible try and get someone to ride next to you like Troll suggested or behind you and then try and get a video of the bike and see if you can see what is happening.
Might not hurt to check the sprockets, see if they are bent/worn/loose. Check motor mounts as well. Just fishin' here, sounds like one of those "try something, check it off the list" things until you find it. Don't be discouraged; there is more bike repair talent on this forum than you can imagine. Either you or someone will figure it out, then you will be very happy. These are great bikes.
You have an 01 with 4200 miles on it. I bet those tires are original. 15 years old. Check the date stamp. Time to replace them anyway.
Quote from: LarryInSeattle on October 13, 2015, 01:56:30 AM
You have an 01 with 4200 miles on it. I bet those tires are original. 15 years old. Check the date stamp. Time to replace them anyway.
Excellent point!
;) boys .........
QuoteI had the fluids changed, new metzler tires, heavier fork oil with restricters put in to the front forks, I also had a rear progressive shock put in the rear.
Unless they been on the shelf a long time they should be good to go.
Has anyone looked at the sprockets?
so rims checked, tires checked, balanced,
did they check the bearings while doing all this?
we will solve this problem
Oops.....missed that one.....
Could the rims be out of true?
There are many possibilities with wire wheels. With no mileage on this bike to speak of, it's hard to point at any one thing, especially wheel related. Radial and axial run out need to be checked, but there is one thing that most people never think of with "modern" o ring chains...They develop stiff spots that cannot be lubricated. Chains in use get them, so why not one that sat, unmoved for a long (years, apparently) time? I have no problem with chain drive bikes, in general, but I would never replace an o ring chain with another o ring chain because of the inability to lube them correctly.
Ok so you are saying it could be something simple as a stiff or tight spot on the chain. So Fink what type of chain and how old is it?
How would that effect the front wheel?
at this point I am not sure but it just might be a feel thing.
Quote from: pcarrell on October 13, 2015, 18:28:01 PM
How would that effect the front wheel?
SOunds to me, from Fink's initial description, that the whole bike is bouncing/shaking. I'm inclined to agree with Troll to think maybe it's the chain.
Raise the back wheel, and turn it by hand to see if there are any tight spots in the chain, for one.
Could be a bad tire, too. DO you know if the problem started before or after the new tires??
I put Shinko 777's on mine, and regret it. There is evidently an out-of round tire on mine. If these tires were truly spin-balanced, they should have seen (and pointed out) any out of round or bent conditions with the tires/wheels (especially if you pointed out you have a problem like this). But, wouldnt' hurt to turn both the front and rear wheel on the bike to check.
Hang in there- we'll figure this one out. That should be a smooth running bike.
Now I'll go out on a limb here, and hope no one shoots me out of the tree. Have you made SURE that the engine is running correctly? A cylinder missing for any number of reasons will cause an unholy shake on a 2 cylinder bike, even one cylinder not firing full power. Maybe that needs looking at too. Just sayin'.....
Quote from: 49Reo on October 13, 2015, 22:37:36 PM
Now I'll go out on a limb here, and hope no one shoots me out of the tree.
BANG!!!
;D
Fink: Agree with Greenbarn....hang in there. It should be smooth running. I have the same 2002 and it doesn't bounce.
I have stock never been changed fork oil and springs as well as original monoshock. I am just starting to feel the tight spot in the chain consistently, but I have almost 24k miles on the bike.....and even the tight spot is not a bounce...it's more of an uneven surge when you decelerate.
So, it shouldn't "bounce"....Even though you covered this, I say tires and wheel balance....there can be so much variation, even with name brands.
We'll keep scratching our heads...keep us posted.
WET DYNA BEADS, WATER IN AIR SUPLY WILL GET YOU. jOE NASH
Good answer but would the water not dry up over time?
Water will not evaporate, If your tire is not
leaking air the dampness will never get out.
did you ever try to wipe the dampness out of a plastic bag? Next to impossible
Been riding for over 50 years, I'm impressed with the dyna beads, just that water will make them stick and not roll around.
If in doubt last resort change the tubes.
MUST HAVE A DRY AIR SUPPLY!
All I have to say about DynaBeads is that Motorcycle Consumer News was less than impressed with them.
I don't want to get off the topic here, but I used Counter balance beads last year and found them to be really good. After reading about the moisture I sent the company an email and here is their response.
Hi Andy, Dyna Beads and Counteract are similar yet different products. Dyna Beads has caused a wide range of issues inside tires, mainly because they are ceramic beads and free flowing, meaning they constantly have to rebalance when you come to a stop and start again, causing Dyna Beads to bang off the rim constantly breaking the beads into pieces. The ceramic beads tend to break apart inside the tire and actually start to deteriorate the inside of the tire.
Counteract, we are a tempered glass bead and due to our patents our product does not need to re-balance when starting and stopping. Once it find the original out-of-balance position they stay there and only move when they experience vibrations and need too. In over 20 million applications we have never cause an issue inside a tire and have never voided a tire warranty. You do not have to worry too much about moisture and Counteract. Our beads are coated in a special coating that resists moisture (every tire accumulates moisture inside) the special coating we apply to them allows Counteract to not be affected by moisture inside tires, therefore they will not clump, although it is a good idea to clear your air line of moisture regardless. The only reason they could clump is if there is a ton of bead lube dropped into the tire while they are being mounted, although this rarely happens.
We are not the same as Dyna Beads. You will not have these issues using Counteract.
Hope this clears up one issue. Now to figure out why the fenders are bouncing around......
Last year had the tires replaced with Metzlers. Had the tires spin balanced 3 times by two different shops. Took it to a Kawasaki dealer where I had the front forks re-done with rear progressive shock. This year I had the chain and two sprockets done at a 3rd different shop and the rear fender still continues do bounce up and down. I told them to check everything out. My fenders and handlebars bounce up and down. Especially my rear fender bounces going down the road. Love the looks of the bike but I am in to it more than I paid for it. It has had this bounce from day one. Its for sale if anyone is interested.
You know that the rear fender on these bikes moves with the suspension, right?
Yes, But does it continuously moves up and down going down the road? I put my hand on the back fender and it is always moving my hand up and down no matter what road I am on. I did not think tire moved that much inside a stagnant fender bike?
Maybe it depends on the road itself: I never saw one with a perfect floor.
Anyway, if that bouncin' doesn't interfere with driving, I wouldn't worry at all...
I'm glad that the rear fender keeps bouncin': that's one of those things that I like, because it reminds me of early Indians!
At this point I would really like to ride behind and then ride the bike. To see and feel what you are experiencing.
Fink to expand on what PC is saying I was somewhat awed the first time I followed my bike, I could not get over how much the rear fender did actually move up and down.
Before you do something drastic like sell the bike you might want to find a Drifter 800 close by and get together for a ride and compare bikes.
yeah that is kind of a unique feature of our bikes where the fender being attached to the swing arm moves with the swingarm and rear tire. I actually have a solo rack on the fender and on top of that I have a tail bag, and I can feel it touching my back on bumps and for a while it took a lot of getting used to but now I expect to feel it back there, it's normal
Quote from: Fink on June 12, 2016, 11:23:42 AM
Yes, But does it continuously moves up and down going down the road? I put my hand on the back fender and it is always moving my hand up and down no matter what road I am on. I did not think tire moved that much inside a stagnant fender bike?
The answer to that question is YES!...you don't know just how much they move until you watch someone else' bike. Here's a test vid I took of mine a couple of years ago.... https://goo.gl/photos/FVtksyZa4VnK7Dsq6 that should answer your questions!
That was really good the pipes seemed to be steady and not move but the fender was in constant motion.
Fink get someone to ride your bike for you and follow them and see how much that fender really moves.....might change your mind.
Sounds to me like you don't realize the rear fender is bolted to the swing arm not to the frame of this bike...same as the front fender is bolted to the lower tubes...Question for you,
what kind of bike have you been riding previous to the Drifter? I had a BMW GS and the front fender was bolted to the lower triple tree and did NOT move, same with the rear bolted to the frame...KEN.
The fender doesn't bounce, the suspension does....continuously....as you confirmed by holding your hand on it while riding. That is normal and in my experience does not translate to bouncing handlebars or other vibration anomaly.
Quote from: Fink on October 12, 2015, 15:31:54 PM
So I hope I am not repeating myself or posting two times but I was unable to find my previous question. Sorry if I am. I picked up a 2002 drifter 800 and it only had 4200miles when I bought it. It must have sat for a while. The front and rear fenders shake up and down. I had the fluids changed, new metzler tires, heavier fork oil with restricters put in to the front forks, I also had a rear progressive shock put in the rear. I have had it to the dealer and another shop. They told me it is the nature of the beast. It is not a wobble but a bounce I can feel in the seat and handlebars. I can see and feel with my hand the front and rear fenders bouncing when going down ANY road. I took the bike on some fresh paved blacktop and I could still feel it. The problem really starts up after 50mph but you can still feel it before. I had them spin balance the tires 3 times and "check" the bearings. I always wanted a drifter but I am regretting buying one. I have had a couple shops tell me "Its the nature of the beast" I think hogwash as they would not release a bike to the public that bounced like this. The problem still seems the same after all the work. The brakes do not seem to be sticking. Tires are both fully beaded. Tire pressure seems to not change anything. I have been riding for 12 years. Everything from a V-max to a c90. I have had front wobble problems with my c90. I smack the handle bars on this bike and it balances the wobble out fine. I am pretty desperate as I got this for 3k and have sunk a little over 2k in to it already :(. Thanks for all the help.
The KEY clues you provided----"It is not a wobble but a bounce I can feel in the seat and handlebars. I can see and feel with my hand the front and rear fenders bouncing when going down ANY road. I took the bike on some fresh paved blacktop and I could still feel it. The problem really starts up after 50mph but you can still feel it before. "
BOUNCE is vital. And BOTH front and rear are sources and it from what you wrote it has nothing to do with your motor or your chain.
It sound to me like your rims, and since you replaced the tires that makes it even more apparent.
My 2 cents.
One of the keys to trouble shoot a ride problem is the frequency of your "bounce".
If you watch any vehicle in motion - the tires will constantly move up an down within the wheel well. This is just the suspension working to absorb road un-evenness. With the Drifter, the fender is attached hard to the tire (through the swing arm, of course) so when ever the tire moves up or down (or conversely YOU move up or down with the sprung suspension) the fender has no other alternative than to move up and down (with respect to the seat).
So moving up and down (bouncing) is not abnormal and cannot be avoided. The "frequency" of this "bounce" would appear random - depending on the smoothness of the road. What would be abnormal is for the fender/tire "bounce" to be with the same FREQUENCY as the tire speed, or engine speed. It's abnormal to be just as bad or worse on a smooth road than a rough one. Abnormal if it goes away or changes significantly when you coast with the clutch in.
hi there..new here..i have a 2000 model ,and after new tyres put on..i got this stupid bounce too..i can see the rims/tyres are balanced(leadstrips on the rim)...i think it has to be with the tyre..or the rim(maybe the bearings are shot?)..i too feel the bounce in the handlebar..mine only does this bounce in the front end..and its not constant..its like a second or two when its smooth..then the bounce starts again..going crazyover this
What brand of tire? Could be out of round. Bad wheel bearings do not cause this problem..Just because a tire is new doesn't mean it's good....
Gents, at the beginning of the season I went through what sounds like the same issues.
New Michelin Commander II's were put on over the winter. Started riding in the spring and found I had a wobble at 50mph, handlebars would not stay straight unless I had a firm grip on the bars...was mostly on the decel.
Had both wheels trued.
Now at 50mph on the decel the wobble (side to side) was gone, but it felt like I was riding a horse. I could feel it in the handlebars mostly. I would change the tire pressures and go ride....again and again. The only thing the pressures did was change the speed at which it was most noticeable.
Changed the front tire to an OEM Bridgestone and the bounce diminished substantially. I couldn't feel it as much in the handlebars, but now felt it more in the seat...and also strangely enough an odd vibration appeared. I would swear it was coming from the front.
Changed the rear tire to an OEM Bridgestone...and a very smooth ride. Odd vibration was gone as well.
Hope this helps someone.
This is getting helpful because I was looking for new tires.
Are those Metzelers the 880 Marathon's? These tires do not look too comfortable. Any motion out of the ordinary could be amplified by new shocks. Shocks will have a sweet spot carrying certain weight, this is mostly forgotten about. I have had bouncing on a former bikes front, that went away over time. It wasn't so unpleasant. Try a stiffer setting and move a passenger or a sandbag around, hopefully, in finding this to be the cause.
Can any-one say what tire pressure is used with bouncing? Having tried every possibility doesn't mean much and can still not have been high enough. I gathered the following recommendations on the Internet:
For the Drifter 1500, the manual calls for FRONT = 28 psi; REAR - 36psi (215 lb loading), 40psi (403 lb loading). (Bridgestone and Dunlop)
Metzeler recognizes the owner manual pressures but make the following recommendations: ME880 - Solo: F=38-40 / R=44-46 ; 2up-Light: F=40-42 / R=46-48 ; 2 up-heavy: F=40-42 / R 48-50
Avon recommendations: Touring/Cruiser models: Solo: F=34-38 / R=38-40 ; 2up-Light: F=40-42 / R=40-42; 2up-Heavy: F=42 / R=42
Tires must be mounted in the right direction, shown by an arrow and are front or rear tires by definition. When used as interchangeable they need to be reversed. A thin line should be close to the rim indicating the position. Spokes can loose tension and should be checked periodically and tightened.
Can inner tubes have these tight spots, like bicycle tubes have? I was thinking to buy Ride-on, It is a gelatinous substance that distributes itself over the inside of the tube or tire, to both self balance the wheel and prevent it from leaking.
I have had the 880's and ran them right to the nubs and this summer am riding on 888's and have not noticed any issues with either set of tires.
Well, I noticed something on the reviews for some models 880's. How do those customers know they are so uncomfortable when it feels the same as smooth. Two stars less for comfort overall. One states a cord broke and one patch came loose after as soon as 5.000 km.
https://www.banden-pneus-online.nl/motorband/metzeler/me-888-marathon-ultra/150-80-b16-tl-77-h-rf.html#test-me-888-marathon-ultra
ok not using the 150-80-b16 on my 800. so I'll step aside.
Quote from: HurtSoMuch on August 02, 2016, 11:43:05 AM
hi again...i have now solved my bouncing problem..it was as easy as it is stupid..when i changed my tyres,i also changed my front sprocket ..to a 18 tooth..the chain got a bit tight...now this is the problem with these bikes..if your chain gets to tight,you get this stupid bounce..so try to loosen your chain(should be like an inch movement)..my problem got solved..so im one happy dude these days
WoW!
That is one interesting and yes JOYOUS solution. Congratulations!
The hard spot in the chain doesn't make the bike bounce....I had a hard spot, so I know. I just changed the chain at 25k miles. The hard spot makes more of a jerking motion, no bounce.
Sorry Troll, but they looked at me like I was an alien when I asked for a regular chain. Went back with new sprockets and an X ring chain.
Yeah, well....these "new" kids don't understand. Imagine what would have happened if you needed a set of points!
Really... :)