A search here didn't reveal at what mileage the tensioners need checking. No mention was made in the maintenance schedule in the service manual that I could find. My 02 engine's at 21,000, but I have no idea how it was run or cared for, for the first 19,000. There is ample upper end noise and a lower end knock that others say is normal, but if my auto engine sounded anything like that I'd be very concerned.
Not having heard any other 1500's for what is considered "normal" noise, is there a range of mileage that is advisable to check the tensioners?
first off, make sure you have the idle set correctly. Too low an idle speed (normal is 950-1000) will make the engine noisier than normal. People say the chains stretch, but I'm thinking it has more to do with the nylon guides wearing. That said, I have almost 103,000 on my 1500 as of right now, and no reason to fiddle with the cam chain tesioners.
103,000! :o Wow, Troll. That's downright impressive and encouraging. I'd be interested in knowing what weight oil you've been using. I've used 10/40, but get more what seems to be bottom end noise, and 20/50, but get more top end noise with that.
I did raise the idle when I took it off the sales lot. It was too low then and the salesman (Harley owner) said that was where it should be. We know better!
The reason for my concern was a "new" noise which wasn't apparent with my helmet on. I encourage everyone to take their bike for a short ride, sans helmet, every now & then. I was surprised at how much more the different engine sounds can be heard. Anyway, the new noise was not a simple "tick". It had a much faster and irregular rhythm to it and at first thought could be the speedometer cable. A new noise always bothers me.
Other than that, the bike runs great, no problems.
Well, if your new noise sounds like a buzzing that changes with engine speed, then you might want to remove one of the spark plug tubes and check to see if the chain has been rubbing on the outside. I run 10-40 Valvoline motorcycle oil spring and fall, and 20-50 during the hot months..change it every 3,000 miles along with the Kaw filter specified for the bike. I change the final drive oil every second engine oil change. There are two removable plug tubes, R/R and L/F...
Thanks! That is a good idea. I'll read up on the removal, check on the price of the hex tool and go from there.
Quote from: Troll on October 05, 2015, 16:01:18 PM
Well, if your new noise sounds like a buzzing that changes with engine speed, then you might want to remove one of the spark plug tubes and check to see if the chain has been rubbing on the outside. I run 10-40 Valvoline motorcycle oil spring and fall, and 20-50 during the hot months..change it every 3,000 miles along with the Kaw filter specified for the bike. I change the final drive oil every second engine oil change. There are two removable plug tubes, R/R and L/F...
Decided to check the tensioner travel while waiting on the hex tool to arrive, and found them both to be within 1/16" of full extension. The front tensioner is a full 1/4" recessed, the rear slightly less. According to "Gadget", it's getting close to extender time. I checked and rechecked the new top end noise, definitely a new "tinny", noise that does vary with engine speed. I don't know if the tensioner(s) are just about to click over to the next notch, but in any event I won't undertake any multi-day road trips yet.
Now for the big question. The front cam chain tensioner is going to be a real bear to pull and replace with the Air Cleaner Duct in place. I'm not even sure if it is possible. If anyone has successfully done it with the duct in place,
please advise!
99, just sayin', but my '02 1500 had a fair bit of engine noise when I first bought it. Finally switched over to Kaw synthetic oil, engine mechanical noise is way down. Might be worth a try to see if it helps. And, like Troll saws, Kaw specified filter I buy my filters from Kawasaki, figure for the $ or to more it is worth it. :-\
49, I've tried different oils, all synthetic, 10/40 and 20/50, and really not much quieter either way. That engine is just a noisy critter, but has a new rattling sound that I believe may be the chain(s).
I had trouble enough just checking the travel depth remaining on the front tensioner because the Air Duct connecting the left & right dog bowls is in the way. The rear one was easy.
I don't want to try completely removing the front tensioner until someone on here verifies there's enough room to do it with the duct in place. According to "Gadget", there's a point of no return if you start backing out those allen head screws. Surely someone on here has tried it.
99, I haven't tried it, so I can't help you there, however, if you end up doing this job I'd be real interested in how you go about it and what you find. Can I suggest a full on mod thread with lots of pics and full descriptions? I know one hasn't been properly done on the forum and it would be highly beneficial to have for reference. I don't think I'm far behind you in needing this, and if nothing else, it'd benefit me.
Quote from: pcarrell on October 07, 2015, 20:37:02 PM
99, I haven't tried it, so I can't help you there, however, if you end up doing this job I'd be real interested in how you go about it and what you find. Can I suggest a full on mod thread with lots of pics and full descriptions? I know one hasn't been properly done on the forum and it would be highly beneficial to have for reference. I don't think I'm far behind you in needing this, and if nothing else, it'd benefit me.
Phil, I'd "sorta" like be up to that challenge, the photos & write-up and all. All the parts are on the way, extenders, new gaskets, and the special 27mm hex tool to remove and check the spark plug inserts. I'm committed, just waiting on some positive feedback from someone with a Drifter who has attempted it with the blasted air duct in the way. Even posted the same question over in the Vulcan forum, where some have successfully done it on Mean Streaks. Not sure the Drifter is exactly set up like the Mean Streak though. If no one posts back to my satisfaction, I'll do a parts comparison between the two model Vulcans and see where that goes.
Difficulty is you must lay on your back to see and get at the front tensioners. Very little room to get a hex key in there and work those things in and out, and tedious. But chances are I'm gonna attempt it, and will put something together that may help someone else. I'll post updates on how this goes.
I'll look forward to any wisdom you can impart!
Before you dig too deep, 99, you should drain the engine oil, then pull the oil pump screen to see how much, if any, metal you find. If something is failing, it might show itself in shed metal, which might give you an idea what is failing.
When Troll has over 100,000 miles and no chain issues, it seems odd that yours are worn that bad. Good luck, and keep us posted.
49
Reo, I checked the screen when I switched back to 10/40 from 20/50 and it was clear of any debris.
Today, I pulled the spark plug tubes and they were both free of any scrape marks. I have the extenders and gaskets on the way and have a hard decision to make. Since the tensioners are within 1/16" of full extension, do I just ride it out or proceed with adding the extenders? According to the "Gadget" article, once you loosen up on the tensioner body hold down bolts, the assembly must be removed completely. I still haven't heard from anyone who has done the removal & replacement on a Drifter and don't know if the front one can be done with the air duct in place. Several have done it on their 1500 Mean Streaks but I don't know if the two different models have identical dog bowl and air duct setups.
Next step is to closely examine engine diagrams and part numbers on the two models and see if they match. If they do, I'll proceed with the job.
One more thing. Does anyone here know the torque down figure for the spark plug tubes??? I can't find it anywhere in the service manual.
OK. The crossover air ducts are the same on most 1500 engines, at least the ones I checked. Also, I visited the Vulcan Baggers Forum and there are a lot of 1500 owners over there who have done the extenders with the crossover duct in place. All said it is doable, and easier if you purchase and use "ball" type allen wrenches to get in that tight space.
The duct is easily moved once you remove the two air box backing plates...it just kind of lays there. There are 2 ways to get it out. Remove the intake manifold, or cut the duct. I cut mine and then got another one just in case I ever wanted (or whomever gets the bike from my estate) wants to put it back to stock configuration. I haven't checked the plungers on mine, since it runs quietly with just a hint of a valve train tick now and then...sleeping dogs, you know.
Quote from: 99tango on October 11, 2015, 18:44:59 PM
OK. The crossover air ducts are the same on most 1500 engines, at least the ones I checked. Also, I visited the Vulcan Baggers Forum and there are a lot of 1500 owners over there who have done the extenders with the crossover duct in place. All said it is doable, and easier if you purchase and use "ball" type allen wrenches to get in that tight space.
Can't help you with the air duct issue - I haven't had to do my timing chains yet. Although it's plenty noisy, I should take a look at it over the winter.
On the allen wrenches - I think ALL jobs (or very nearly all) are easier with the ball end allen wrenches!! I would highly recommend every bike owner having a set...
Quote from: Troll on October 11, 2015, 19:09:43 PM
The duct is easily moved once you remove the two air box backing plates...it just kind of lays there. There are 2 ways to get it out. Remove the intake manifold, or cut the duct. I cut mine and then got another one just in case I ever wanted (or whomever gets the bike from my estate) wants to put it back to stock configuration. I haven't checked the plungers on mine, since it runs quietly with just a hint of a valve train tick now and then...sleeping dogs, you know.
As you suggested, I removed the spark plug tubes and they were unmarked, so no worries about the tensioners
at this time. I was trying to avoid having to remove the intake manifold to add the extenders. If that's what it takes and the extenders were needed immediately, I'd dive into it, but with your help I found they aren't needed,
yet. Since I found others who added the extenders w/o pulling the duct, no worries there either.
I just have a noisy engine, looking for causes, but not going to do any surgery until needed.
Quote from: greenbarn on October 11, 2015, 19:55:24 PM
Can't help you with the air duct issue - I haven't had to do my timing chains yet. Although it's plenty noisy, I should take a look at it over the winter.
On the allen wrenches - I think ALL jobs (or very nearly all) are easier with the ball end allen wrenches!! I would highly recommend every bike owner having a set...
The ball ends are on my list, next trip to town.
Do yourself a favor and buy good quality ones; I cheaped out and bought a cheap set, they do more damage than good. They rounded off, and also rounded the head out a bit in the bolt; luckily it was a common size and I didn't have to order it from planet Meringo in the XY galaxy......lol
I read through this thread very quickly so please forgive if I'm mentioning something that's already been dealt with.
I installed the extenders without moving the cross over tube. I remember it was very frustrating to get the front tensioner in and out but monkeying around with it will eventually achieve the desired results. the cross over tube can be loosened (I think all the junk on both sides has to come off) to make the job easier. And, as someone mentioned, ball end Allen keys really help. Seem to me that I couldn't get one of the screws as tight as it could be and I considered cutting the end off to make a really stubby a Allen key but in the end I was able to get the screw tight enough not to leak so that was good enough for me.
Just the answer I was looking for on this Drifter forum, Bucko. Still waiting on the new tensioner body gaskets, then it's "no excuse" time. Thanks.
Keep us updated.... Pics would be nice ;D