Vulcan Drifter Riders

DISCUSSIONS => General Discussion => Topic started by: Troll on September 19, 2015, 21:22:22 PM

Title: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on September 19, 2015, 21:22:22 PM
     Considering a new addition to my very small arms collection. When I first started to have issues with carpal tunnel syndrome, I stopped shooting my .44 Desert Eagle.   After I had the surgery, and was supposedly "cured" I found I couldn't pull the slide back to chamber a round. I sold the Eagle, but I kept my Llama 1911 .45  I carry it with me on the road, and it's within 10 feet of me right now...My hand strength is improving after 8 years of rehab, and I'm thinking I want a new hand gun to compliment my Llama....Looking at a Taurus Judge.. probably the "public defender" model with the 2" barrel and 2 1/2" cylinder. Smaller than my .45, and it shoots (for those of you who don't know) .45 long Colt and .410 shotgun shells. There are even new versions of the .410 designed specifically for hand guns.. and of course, it also shoots .410 slugs. I was wondering if anyone knows about them, and has had any personal experience with one. Taurus offers a lifetime warranty on them, so although it probably won't see enough use to wear out, I feel that their willingness to back up their hardware that well makes me feel more secure. I had a good warranty with my Llama, but the company went out of business after like 100 years....BTW, I'll bet I've put close to 1,000 rounds through that .45 with NO malfunctions. Soooo, whatcha think???
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: greenbarn on September 20, 2015, 20:09:17 PM
I don't own one, and have never shot one, but have read good stuff about them.  I always thought it would be a versatile handgun.  You've got lots of choices in ammo - shot, buckshot, slugs, and there are some disc ammo that's pretty good.  Not to mention .45 LC... nothing wrong with that, either.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on September 20, 2015, 21:21:59 PM
That's what I figured. I went over to Gander Mountain today and handled one. The price they want for the public defender model w/2" barrel is $100 more than Cabela's for the same gun. I would have to ride about 55 miles to the closest Cabela's to get one. Sounds like a deal breaker...not!..I was looking at the 2 1/2" disc/shot ammo they had on the shelf...They didn't have any .45 LC, but I'm pretty sure Wal-Mart does....Now to get the money together....
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: 49Reo on September 20, 2015, 21:49:19 PM
Don't know what 'disc shot' is, but I'm thinking it is similar to what a friend of mine did one time with a 12 gauge; dumped the shot out of it and packed the shell with dimes; one shot wiped out the wall of a shed; I can imagine what it would do to a warm body.....
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on September 20, 2015, 21:53:16 PM
Winchester makes it specifically for the Judge and the S&W Governor. Twelve plated pellets and 3 plated discs in a plastic wad cup.
http://www.winchester.com/Products/New-Products/Pages/pdx1-410.aspx    Looks pretty interesting
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Gooseberrie on September 21, 2015, 07:57:06 AM
Wait until Barry left the White House.
What when shooting hurts...
Build no cold shed or make it a lot shorter.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: gdrudd13 on September 21, 2015, 08:53:30 AM
I have a Taurus Judge. It's not the public defender version, but has the longer 4"? barrel or something like that. I really like it. It's fun to shoot, and the weight makes the felt recoil less. I actually have it loaded with the Winchester PDX1 rounds when it is being used for home defense (less over penetration). I've also shot it with some .45 colt as well. If you are a reloader, I can send you the load information for those rounds.

One thing I will mention is that if you are not wanting to use the pdx1 round or anything, the .45 Colt seems to be superior to .410 slugs. All of the .410 slugs that I found weren't super heavy, and out of a pistol had disappointing velocity as well.

Also, at least on the longer barreled version that I have, accuracy is very good. I hear people say they're crazy inaccurate when shooting .45 Colt, but I've taken mine out to 25 yards and it grouped very well. It's not competition gun accurate, but it is easily within "minute of bad guy".
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on September 21, 2015, 09:11:45 AM
Good to hear. I've been doing research and there are some comments about cylinder binding and failure to correctly index. If I want accuracy, I have my .45. Llama.  As a quick draw/defense gun, I'm thinking that this might be exactly what I want. We have had the crime rate in town skyrocket in the last year, and it does make one worry about being out and about in what used to be a "safe" town...The PDX carts and now I see that there are a couple of other entries in the market, are what I had in mind. I see that the gun will also handle .45 S&W, and I read somewhere that there is an individual adapter for .45 ACP that works...LOTS of options. In town , I would wonder about the wisdom of the L.C....I owned a Blackhawk in .45 L.L. and it was a good shooter, but the disk/shot carts make this sound like the ultimate "belly gun"...
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: 49Reo on September 21, 2015, 20:25:44 PM
Well one thing about it, in.410 cal. it won't tear your hand off at the wrist,but with those Winchester rounds it would sure cause the recipient a world of hurt, at the minimum. Sure wish we were allowed to carry up here. Instead, or budding wannabe Prime Ministers want to take them away.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on September 21, 2015, 21:12:13 PM
I had a friend in Alaska who told me everybody is REQUIRED to carry....Been checking prices, and with the exception of Gander Mountain ($530), everybody is within $5 of each other..going price seems be $440. I have a couple more places to check, tomorrow.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: 49Reo on September 21, 2015, 21:51:32 PM
Remember.....it ain't real without pics, lol.... ;)
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: gdrudd13 on September 22, 2015, 07:47:48 AM
The part about cylinders not indexing happens on all revolvers, not just Taurus. I've seen Taurus, S&W, Colt, all of them not index well or have a sloppy cylinder. before you buy just make sure to pull the hammer back and go through every chamber. Everything should line up, and with the hammer back there should be no slop, or very very little. Never Heard of it accepting 45 S&W, or an adapter for 45 acp, but I've never really looked into it. From my experience, the 45 colt loads will be superior to the 45 acp if loaded with a good hollow point (Hornady makes a good one that I use in my hand loads). Tends to be a slightly heavier bullet with a slightly higher muzzle velocity. But they are more expensive, so practicing gets pricey.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on September 22, 2015, 10:05:09 AM
Quote from: gdrudd13 on September 22, 2015, 07:47:48 AM
The part about cylinders not indexing happens on all revolvers, not just Taurus. I've seen Taurus, S&W, Colt, all of them not index well or have a sloppy cylinder. before you buy just make sure to pull the hammer back and go through every chamber. Everything should line up, and with the hammer back there should be no slop, or very very little. Never Heard of it accepting 45 S&W, or an adapter for 45 acp, but I've never really looked into it. From my experience, the 45 colt loads will be superior to the 45 acp if loaded with a good hollow point (Hornady makes a good one that I use in my hand loads). Tends to be a slightly heavier bullet with a slightly higher muzzle velocity. But they are more expensive, so practicing gets pricey.
What I read was that it wasn't just not indexing perfectly, but getting stuck about half way. I've had quite a few Rugers and never had any problem like that. In all fairness, it was just one online comment, so I was just checking around. I research EVERYTHING...Spoke to a guy at one of the gun stores who has one and is quite pleased with the overall performance, but he has one with the 4" barrel. I'm not looking for a target arm, but rather one more like my pocket camera...point and shoot. A heavy load in the .45 LC sounds like a good idea, until you look at where I might be needing it ...in a city scenario, over penetration is a real issue.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on September 22, 2015, 10:06:21 AM
Quote from: 49Reo on September 21, 2015, 21:51:32 PM
Remember.....it ain't real without pics, lol.... ;)
Don't own it yet. Rest assured, I will post pics when I have it in hand!
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on September 22, 2015, 10:19:58 AM
Been poking around and found that there are quite a few choices, now in addition to "normal" 410 shotgun shells: http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/20-rounds-of-hornady-critical-defense-410-triple-defense-ammo?a=1154048
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/06/daniel-zimmerman/p320-entry-410-pistol-ammo-showdown/
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2900393924/winchester-pdx1-defender-ammunition-410-bore-2-1-2-3-disks-over-1-4-oz-bb-shot
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/shotshell.aspx?id=912
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: DC on September 23, 2015, 00:49:26 AM
Quote from: Troll on September 20, 2015, 21:21:59 PM
That's what I figured. I went over to Gander Mountain today and handled one. The price they want for the public defender model w/2" barrel is $100 more than Cabela's for the same gun. I would have to ride about 55 miles to the closest Cabela's to get one. Sounds like a deal breaker...not!..I was looking at the 2 1/2" disc/shot ammo they had on the shelf...They didn't have any .45 LC, but I'm pretty sure Wal-Mart does....Now to get the money together....

I have two Cabellas in my region and I find they are usually higher priced than buying something on Gunbroker.  Plus, they seem to be at the back of the line when things are back ordered.  When I was looking for my FN Five-seveN, they told me it would be an infinite wait for one, as it was heavily back ordered at the time.  I went on Gunbroker and had my pick of brand new Five-seveNs, and at prices beating Cabellas.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on September 23, 2015, 07:52:00 AM
Very interesting. Laws being what they are, varying so much from state to state, you'd think with such a big "hunting" population in Wisconsin, there would be more choices. There are very few place, at least within 100 miles of me, to buy a firearm...
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on September 23, 2015, 12:44:55 PM
    Ok, then I "pulled the trigger" on the deal. The second place I went had given me a price of $439.00. I printed off the Spec sheet from Taurus, and called Cabelas this morning. I had them check inventory and they claimed they had one in stock. I almost went down there, this morning, but decided to check with the gun shop that had given me the better price. Just for the hell of it, I took my Llama .45 with me. He checked the spec sheet against his supplier, and found they had 2 in stock that were the exact model number I was looking for.
    I asked him if he was interested in a partial payment with the Llama...I paid $210 for it more than 20 years ago, and although it's been all over the country, it still is basically "new"....Bottom line, The new Judge I wanted cost me my Llama and $39. Since I was planning to carry the Judge instead, anyway, there was no real reason to keep the .45, but 400 reasons to send it down the road. By the way, the M.S.R.P. on the Judge is $607.00. They expect it to arrive by Monday, next.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: greenbarn on September 23, 2015, 22:25:46 PM
Congratulations, it's always nice getting a new gun.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: 49Reo on September 23, 2015, 23:17:16 PM
Nothing makes me smile...like getting a new gun!!!. Congrats on it. We can't have anything under 4 1/2" up here in Canukistan......  :(
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on September 24, 2015, 08:11:56 AM
I went around last night, looking for the PDX410 shotgun loads, and bought 1 box of 10...When I got home I dug out a box under my work bench that I thought had some 215 gr .45 L.C.... All it had was a box of once fired cases, and 200 rnds of .44 mag and 100 .45 auto. I'm going to ask the people at the gun store if they want to give me something for the stuff I already had. they are also a pawn shop, so maybe...
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Old Drifter on September 24, 2015, 20:48:00 PM
Congrats on your new weapon! Remember, they're like potato chips...you must have more than one.  ;D
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on September 25, 2015, 08:58:20 AM
Pictures soon. Still waiting for the call to come and pick it up...Found a 20 rnd combo pack from Remington with .45 lc half jacket hollow points and 000 Buck shot .410s designed for the Judge and the S&W Governor...and it has a $5 mail in rebate...Wife says "How much ammunition do you need" I say, we have to practice with new weapon and still have some left for it's purpose, so probably a lot! I found a neat youtube video with a guy testing various loads in the same model I bought. his conclusions make sense...maybe the 4 000 buck loads are a better choice than the 3 disk/12 bb loads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNVXuspaJtE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDMDd4eAQO0
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on October 01, 2015, 12:20:45 PM
Sooooo, it's finally here, in my hands. Took a lot longer to get than I had expected. Shipped from Minneapolis on Monday, arrived at the shop on Wed. (I could have gone up there and gotten it in 6 hours)....Wisconsin has recently done away with their 48 hour waiting period for handgun purchases, the "instant" background check is supposed to be enough.  So I filled out all the forms (the last time I bought a handgun was 25 years ago..all I had to do was pay for it and wait 48 hours before I could pick it up). At 1:00 the counter guy calls in my information. They say they will call him back, shortly...yeah, bull$hit. They called back this morning about 10 am...he calls me, and I go to get it, fill out more paperwork, and now I have it. Glad this wasn't a gun show purchase, I would still be waiting for the "instant" background check!  So some pictures: remember, this is chambered for .45 Colt and .410 shotgun. I picked up a small sampling of different kinds of defense ammo designed for it. Regular shotgun and pistol ammo is not optimized for the Judge, so I decided to make sure I was getting the most out of the piece. The videos I posted were done with the same model, with 2" barrel that I bought, except he opted for the stainless model....That PDX-1 stuff looks quite interesting. I hope to get a chance to test fire it on the weekend...
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: DC on October 05, 2015, 00:44:23 AM
The PDX1 line is generally pricey stuff, and I guess they can charge a premium as these are specialized loads.  I have a few boxes of 12 gauge PDX1, but I'm reserving their use for only special occasions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg44jDOL8jo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg44jDOL8jo)
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on October 05, 2015, 08:29:18 AM
Yes, it is. $1.80 each in .410, however compared to everything else I tested on Saturday, they were the best for consistency and pattern. 2" barrel at 7 yards:
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: CDNRatMan on October 05, 2015, 09:39:56 AM
 ;) ever consider it might not be the weapon or the ammo, might be operator issues....


  ok I finally post on this thread now to go and just hide......
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on October 05, 2015, 09:53:45 AM
The three holes close together are the three 35 cal. discs and the small holes are the 12 bb shot loaded behind the discs...all in all, since it hit about 2" to the right of hold, I'm pretty happy with it. I'm going to nudge the front sight a little to the right and try it again when I get a chance..
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: 49Reo on October 05, 2015, 10:44:33 AM
Well congrats on your new family member.....lol nice. Curious to know what the recoil will be like on such a small revolver.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on October 05, 2015, 11:21:39 AM
I was pleasantly surprised. It wasn't anything like I was expecting. Not a whole lot more than I got with my 1911. I put 12 shots through it in that first session, and I could tell the difference between loads by the amount of recoil. The Herter's with 3 000 buck was the lightest, and the Remington Critical defense with 4 000 buck was the heaviest. The 230 gr hjhp was kind of in the middle, and pretty much the same as the PDX-1
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: greenbarn on October 05, 2015, 19:43:38 PM
Dad had a Smith & Wesson 500 magnum.  It was actually painful to shoot.  The muzzle was ported from the factor, to minimize the muzzle rise, which it did to some extent.  However, the result was that when you fired it, it felt like someone had just hit the end of the gun (back into your palm) with a baseball bat.  It was a 5 shot, like the judge, and that was all you wanted to shoot it at one time.     

Dad's was the 8" barrel (I think), but a friend of mine had the 4".   That was ridiculous...  If you would shoot it anywhere close to dusk, the visible flames were quite extensive...

But, back on topic, I had been looking at those Judges some time ago, but never picked one up.  Now you've re-piqued my curiosity...  thanks for the update
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on October 05, 2015, 20:02:18 PM
There are so many variations on this theme, you can't hardly believe it. From the Public Defender line, alone there are at least 4 variants. Then there are the medium frame variants, and the large frame variants...and then the "Raging Judge" line chambered for 454 casull.....and then there is the "Circuit Judge" which is a revolving carbine....2 1/2" cylinders, 3" cylinders, Poly frames, stainless, one with a titanium cylinder, the ultralight version...poking through the catalog on line will keep you busy for a while. Shop around though. Prices vary as much as the versions do.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: 49Reo on October 09, 2015, 00:22:19 AM
You could have gone for a BFR....not a concealable gun, but takes the starch out of the bad guys' sails real quick.....
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on October 09, 2015, 10:58:17 AM
Quote from: 49Reo on October 09, 2015, 00:22:19 AM
You could have gone for a BFR....not a concealable gun, but takes the starch out of the bad guys' sails real quick.....
I needed something to take on the road when I'm going on a trip. I probably won't carry it any differently than I did my .45. I have a nice 12 ga pump at home and my wife has a .22 mag, so since I haven't had a new gun in 25 years, I thought a change might be in order...The thing is a hoot to shoot, too!
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: 49Reo on October 10, 2015, 14:08:03 PM
I understand that thing about not having a new gun in the last 25 years.....its been at least 2 months since I bought on.....starting to have withdrawals..... :D
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on October 10, 2015, 14:33:52 PM
Quote from: 49Reo on October 10, 2015, 14:08:03 PM
I understand that thing about not having a new gun in the last 25 years.....its been at least 2 months since I bought on.....starting to have withdrawals..... :D
:o
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: 49Reo on October 11, 2015, 21:42:19 PM
I sold one a couple of weeks ago; an 1871 manufacture Remington Rolling Block, and have about 4 others in the bullpen waiting for a new home...... starting to thin them down, but I like my .45-70's....wife says it is more obsession than 'like'......lol
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on October 18, 2015, 17:59:00 PM
Not much to say, at this point. the video says it all https://picasaweb.google.com/109550952480484427597/October182015Judge#6207123059192046546
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on October 19, 2015, 08:51:24 AM
So far, I'm really pleased with the performance. The patterning with various kinds of specifically designed shot shells is very consistent, and even with the 2" barrel on this version, the accuracy is very good. All the loads easily penetrated a steel building wall panel at 25', and almost all the shot wads managed to penetrate the 1/2" plywood the targets were attached to. I've not shot a handgun since I had carpal tunnel surgery 8 years ago, and my skills are just a bit rusty. I'm sure the piece is much more capable than I am. I put a set of Pachmayr Diamond Pro grips on and this was the first time I tried it with those. Big improvement over the small round butt grip it came with.  Perceived recoil is much less due, I would think, to spreading the impact over a larger area. I put 30 rnds through it and my hand didn't even notice it.....This one is a "concealed carry" model, so it's built on a small frame, with the short barrel. There are so many variations on this theme, it would be difficult to describe them all (but after owning this one, might be something to try and collect!) I have noticed one thing, however, on internet postings. The poly frame model seems to have some inherent issues. I like steel anyway, so that wasn't even something on my "radar" when researching it. Here's a picture of one of my "targets" with a single shot from a Hornady Critical Defense triple load.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on November 29, 2015, 09:36:14 AM
    I took a firearm self defense class at Gander Mountain yesterday. I was figuring that rusty (from 1970) skills were better than nothing, but after taking the class, I am glad I did. There were many facets to the class, from legal issues, to techniques and equipment. There was a 1 hour range session included with the $99 class fee (that's usually $25 to use the live range all by itself). There were 15 people in the class, and when we went to the live fire range to "qualify" it was a chance to get serious with the Judge. There were a few people with .380s, and mostly 9mms....and me. We had to shoot 30 rounds, 2 handed, left handed and right handed, at 15 and 21 feet and get 30 hits inside the silhouette outline. They suggested we bring 50 rounds just to be sure. It was a pretty interesting experience. There were 4 shooters at a time...pop, pop, pop, BOOM....Mostly they were shooting slow fire, and that's how I started out, but quickly moved to rapid fire using D.A. I was going to count the 90 holes in the target, but the middle of the 8-10 ring was completely gone by the time I was done....This might be a solution to the carnival game where you shoot the red star out of the paper...ya think they'll let me use my own gun?
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on December 06, 2015, 20:31:59 PM
OK...I think I found the magic combination for my Judge. Hornady triple defense 410 slug/buck shot cartridges....Very consistent and I have already tried the penetration, by shooting through the door of n '88 Chevy Corsica...window was up, but the inner door panel came off....Red pasters for the Hornady FTX slugs, and green for Federal 000 defense buck shot. All shots were at 7 yards...the maximum distance at the Gander Mountain range.....
  Before there are any smart remarks, the pasters are pre-printed garage sale stickers I had laying around...
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on December 19, 2015, 17:02:07 PM
Went out to the range today. Getting better with the little cannon....10 shots, rapid fire, 9 yards, 240 gr. semi flat nose lead
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: 49Reo on December 19, 2015, 20:40:56 PM
And how are the old wrists holding up? I took my '73 Colt SAA to the range a while back, after 100 rounds or so my left hand was sore. The grip is to small for my big mitts; guess I'll have to whittle a set out of some maple a nice guy from OHIO sent me.....
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on December 20, 2015, 08:31:10 AM
I guess I'm really surprised at how nice it is to shoot. I put 50 rnds. through yesterday, and aside from getting a little shaky at the end, giving me a couple of flyers, I did just fine. The Pachmayr grip I put on seems to be just the change it needed for extended use. 2 pics, original and w/the new grip:
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: greenbarn on December 20, 2015, 21:31:32 PM
Troll, now you just need a holster to carry that in...  check this out:

http://urbancarryholsters.com/video-reviews-faqs
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: DC on December 20, 2015, 22:30:10 PM
Quote from: greenbarn on December 20, 2015, 21:31:32 PM
Troll, now you just need a holster to carry that in...  check this out:

http://urbancarryholsters.com/video-reviews-faqs

Interesting. 
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on December 21, 2015, 08:14:04 AM
I already have a holster for it. It's an ambidextrous open top clip/belt loop nylon. Inside the waist band or out....very small. I've got it set up for cross draw, but I'm looking for a tactical belt rig that I can clip it to for when I'm on the bike...since my riding jacket is form fitting....
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: 49Reo on December 21, 2015, 10:28:50 AM
Those grips make a whole new gun out of it by the look of it. They would look strange on my Colt SAA though.....
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on December 21, 2015, 15:17:21 PM
You're just a traditionalist....somehow I don't think anybody makes grips like those for a Colt Army...or a Ruger Super Blackhawk...
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on December 27, 2015, 11:46:40 AM
I've been messing with the front sight and I have also settled on just two types of ammunition. 250 gr. Lead .45 colt and Hornady Triple Defense shot shells with a .41 cal hollow point slug and 2 .35 cal lead balls behind it. Both types shoot very consistent groups. So, now that the gun is well sorted (350 rnds through it), it's going to be a matter of improving my own skills. I used to be pretty good, so I have a memory to work toward....Pic 1 is .45 colt, 10 shots, 2 hand hold...some of the rounds went through the same hole  ;D The second pic. is the triple defense...just 5 shots. The round holes are from the slug and the lead balls, the jagged holes are from the base wads...The whole point of this kind of firearm is to "change" behavior...by having several levels of escalating force available.  I also like to know where the first one is going, so there may not be a need for a second....The one in the 8 ring is my fault, I let my wrist break a bit...
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: greenbarn on December 27, 2015, 17:27:26 PM
Looking good Troll.  I think either one would do the trick.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on January 16, 2016, 19:00:47 PM
A little more tuning on the "non-adjustable" sight on the Judge yields this result..250 gr. Hornady Half jacket Hollow point extreme terminal performance ammunition....10 rounds....and a trip to the local gun show nets me a PT-1911.....and it's first trip to the range rewards my patience with this....16 rounds, fresh out of the box...230 gr. hardball:
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: greenbarn on January 16, 2016, 19:10:39 PM
I thought you just got rid of a 1911???    Just couldn't stay away....   
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on January 16, 2016, 19:45:24 PM
Yeah, well....but that one was a very basic 1911...this is a top notch version..all forged, not cast parts, hand fitted and numbered slide and frame....ported ejection port, trigger job, ambi safety, polished feed ramp and barrel port, lots of stuff that would cost another $500 on anyone else's version....comes with 2 8 round mags, adjustable low profile 3 dot combat sights, and it shoots 16 through the same hole, even with me running it...Almost as soon as I got home with the Judge, I realized I missed having a 1911 around....did I mention it shoots REALLY WELL?
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: DC on January 18, 2016, 09:37:10 AM
Wilson, Kimber?
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: greenbarn on January 18, 2016, 11:52:44 AM
Taurus???   I think he wanted to "keep it in the family" maybe.  ;D
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on January 18, 2016, 15:01:18 PM
Research, again...and 2 months waiting...YES a TAURUS. Here's a "family portrait". Just a little side note. I took it home, field stripped and cleaned it, checked for any assemble problems, and took it to the range. Put 50 rounds through it without any kind of issues and it basically put every shot through the same hole...
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: greenbarn on January 18, 2016, 21:53:30 PM
pretty impressive, and nice credentials for the price.   A Kimber would likely be twice as much as you paid, doubtful it would have shot any better.

Just a side note...  nice doily, but shouldn't that picture be taken on a deer hide, or biker jacket, or piece of roughcut oak lumber or something??  But a heart-trimmed doily?  :o  ;D
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on January 19, 2016, 08:21:24 AM
It's a family portrait.... ;D
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on January 30, 2016, 09:14:24 AM
A little tuning and a little customizing...since the judge is 99% perfect, I'm working on the 1911....getting there.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: 49Reo on January 30, 2016, 10:37:42 AM
Quote from: greenbarn on January 18, 2016, 21:53:30 PM
pretty impressive, and nice credentials for the price.   A Kimber would likely be twice as much as you paid, doubtful it would have shot any better.

Just a side note...  nice doily, but shouldn't that picture be taken on a deer hide, or biker jacket, or piece of roughcut oak lumber or something??  But a heart-trimmed doily?  :o  ;D
he's just showing us his soft and mushy side.  :D
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: gdrudd13 on February 02, 2016, 10:16:37 AM
Wood grips on the 1911? Those look nice. Mine has plain wooden ones without any texture. I've thought about upgrading to VZ Alien grips in some color that resembles wood. I like the feel of G10, but the looks of the wooden ones.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on February 02, 2016, 11:50:23 AM
They are Pachmayr American Classic composite. Wood and a wrap around rubber insert. The original grips felt a little thin to me, and I wanted something that gave it a little more heft. I have a fairly wide hand, and these fit it better. I did pretty much the same thing with the Judge. Replaced the factory grip with a bit bigger one.....
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: greenbarn on February 02, 2016, 17:35:04 PM
Grips makes a huge difference on a hand piece.   That 1911 comes with 4 mags?   pretty good deal.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on February 14, 2016, 16:12:22 PM
New adjustable battle sight on the PT....BIG SMILE!
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: greenbarn on February 14, 2016, 17:57:33 PM
that one flier on the left is a little disappointing, isn't it???   ;D

Nice group-   especially at your age!!  HAPPY BIRTHDAY, by the way, a little belated....
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on February 14, 2016, 19:37:59 PM
What do mean at my age???? Best part of this was the first shot with the new sight was 9 ring at 6 O:clock...changed the elevation a few clicks and left the windage alone...I can hardly wait to try it at 25 yards!
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: 49Reo on February 14, 2016, 20:34:04 PM
One thing about it, someone tries to tip your little red wagon over, they're gonna be a hurtin' commodity.... ;D
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on February 15, 2016, 09:03:03 AM
Since I was 8 years old, I was involved in competitive target shooting. It was one of the few things my Father and I agreed on. First it was rifle, then small bore gallery, and then big bore long distance, iron sight only. I did a little pistol and shotgun here and there, but living in New York, owning a handgun was like do it yourself dentistry...not impossible, but damn difficult. When I moved to Wisconsin in 1974, I found that owning a handgun for private use was as easy to do as buying a dozen eggs...so that's what I did....first a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt, and then a series of .44 mags, including a mk 1 Desert Eagle...and a Llama 1911 style. Believe it or not, even with all the hunting stuff going on here, there is no target shooting, except for trap....which is ok, but not really my thing. After I started to develop carpal tunnel problems, I couldn't pull back the slide on the Eagle, so I sold it, but I kept the Llama....The surgery to "repair" the problem was in 2007, and now, in just the last 6 months or so, I've actually been able to get back to shooting....I bought the Judge, mainly for home defense, but it's a hoot to shoot...we have a lot of Chicago refugees streaming in here, so home security has become a primary concern. The people here didn't lock their doors, now they have security systems...I traded the Llama in when I bought the Judge, but I missed having a .45 ACP around, and after owning a Taurus, and discovering how well it was built, I decided to save up and get a PT-1911....ABSOLUTELY SPLENDID WEAPON. I have put about 300 rounds through it with no malfunctions and it always groups around an inch or so....If you know anything about 1911s, you will understand about that last statement, if you don't then lets just say that the $1000 and up guns cannot do any better, and many do a lot worse...
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on April 10, 2016, 19:22:49 PM
OK, here I go again....having money is a dangerous thing. I bought a .44 cap & Ball revolver. I'm the third owner, but it's never been fired (I took it completely apart, no evidence of any use at all)...almost too pretty to shoot, but I'm going to..probably Tuesday. I have to work Monday, so...I'll post pics of it and the results. As far as the PT-1911, over 1,000 rounds, so far with no failures of any kind. I was popping bowling pin silhouettes last week at 100 feet...and I now have an Italian made repro of an M-1 Carbine, circa 1944, in .22 LR. Shoots great...2" groups at 50 yards with iron sights....and of course, the Judge...sits by the bed with 255 gr HJHP...
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: 49Reo on April 24, 2016, 19:36:53 PM
I recently picked up a 1911; love it. I have rather large paws, so am looking for new grips. I wasn't sure how I would like it, so picked up a Norinco, I know, buying Chicom stuff takes away from our own economy, but everything else is bloody expensive up here. Anyway, if they don't outlaw them with this upcoming change in our gun 'laws' I expect I will be picking up a Remington 1911, there goes my pocket change for a while.....
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on April 24, 2016, 19:39:49 PM
Quote from: 49Reo on April 24, 2016, 19:36:53 PM
I recently picked up a 1911; love it. I have rather large paws, so am looking for new grips. I wasn't sure how I would like it, so picked up a Norinco, I know, buying Chicom stuff takes away from our own economy, but everything else is bloody expensive up here. Anyway, if they don't outlaw them with this upcoming change in our gun 'laws' I expect I will be picking up a Remington 1911, there goes my pocket change for a while.....
I had the same problem with the factory Taurus grips. I put a set of Pachmayr American Legend grips on and now it fits perfectly
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on April 24, 2016, 19:49:17 PM
Supposed to be raining all day, but it wasn't. Took advantage of the 60° temp to ride up to the range (about 20 miles) and play with the 1851 Navy...I call it
"Cap'n Ball"....A little adjustment to the rear sight (it's a notch in the front lip of the hammer) with a die grinder, and a bump in powder charge to 24 gr. of  Pyrodex...and these are the results (Bye the way, the load I'm firing is ballistically equivalent to a +P .38 special) and here are the results. I know, no pics, didn't happen...well it did! I'm shooting offhand at 100'.....The high shot on the silhouette target was the first one, the last 2 are in the same hole, in the red circle!
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on April 26, 2016, 18:38:12 PM
Well, I'm at it again...I really missed being able to shoot just because I basically grew up with it. Between the carpal tunnel issues and the cataracts, I had pretty much given up on the whole idea. The surgeries I had to "fix" the carpal tunnel made it worse...8 years of recovery and rehab, then I tore a right rotator cuff, that healed, but it took 2 years, then the left one...that only took  year....So, now with a steady source of non committed income, and both arms working at about 75-80%, and the cataract problem fixed, I'm back in the shooting "game"...About 50 years ago, I had some black powder guns, including a real Colt .36 Navy revolver...Black powder was a PITA to clean up, and when you were done, you looked like a chimney sweep at the end of the day....Pyrodex is WONDERFUL! Cleans up with HOT WATER...rinses right out, bronze bore brush, couple dry patches, and an oil mop and you're done. Cabelas is the only reasonably priced source of BP firearms near me, and they have a good selection...every once in a while, they throw a killer deal at you...Could NOT pass this one up...this piece sells for as much as $350, in various places, and they had it on sale for 1 day at $199.  I did an internet order to lock in the price and they shipped to the store. I picked it up at 09:30 this morning...got it home, cleaned and ready, and out to the range by 13:30....Pietta 1858 .44 Remington Army. Took it and my 1851 Navy out to the range and played for an hour or so....https://picasaweb.google.com/109550952480484427597/1851NavyReplica  Link to my "selfie". I used an NRA target on big paper for the Remington, since I had no idea where it would print, and 9" paper plates for the Navy since I know where it will hit, within about 2" or so...The Remington hits about 6" low at 25 yards, I was told to expect this...The red dot at 12 o'clock on the target was point of aim, gave me the results in the black...
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: greenbarn on April 26, 2016, 20:49:58 PM
I really like the cap n ball stuff.   Fun to shoot.

your selfie link gives me a 404 error.....   most likely the picture of you broke the camera..  :o 8) ::)
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on April 26, 2016, 21:52:21 PM
Try new link: https://picasaweb.google.com/109550952480484427597/1851NavyReplica   third one..
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: greenbarn on April 27, 2016, 20:43:59 PM
That one worked...
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: DC on April 28, 2016, 20:06:51 PM
They're strictly single action I guess.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: chief on April 29, 2016, 14:35:16 PM
I have a .44 Remington. After you fire one of these a bit you understand why people missed so often back when these were state-of-the-art. The smoke really obscures the target!
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on April 29, 2016, 19:56:15 PM
Quote from: DC on April 28, 2016, 20:06:51 PM
They're strictly single action I guess.

Wouldn't have it any other way..even my .45 auto and M-1 carbine are "single action"!
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on May 10, 2016, 13:41:47 PM
https://goo.gl/photos/U2Fy6VkDdhzfJ1z18     New $9 mag from the gun show on Sat.

4 out of 7 in the black@50'...230 gr hollow points. Bought a spare cylinder for my 1858 for $20 ($100 retail)..tried that out, too. also @50' My last 4 caps...had to go home, no more ammo!
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: DC on May 10, 2016, 20:32:28 PM
Holy cow!  Talk about a tight pattern!   :o
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on May 11, 2016, 18:56:13 PM
I gotta quit looking at Gunbroker....found a real nice example of an 1860 Army .44. According to the date code on the frame, it was built in 1995...It cost me $150. Current production ones on sale are $250....Well, it arrived from Texas today. I took it all apart, and it looks as though it was fired some, but not during this century. It must have been dry fired a lot. 3 of the nipples were pretty hammered over. I was able to save one of them with my die grinder, so I left the other 2 out and went to the range. I took the 1851 Navy with me, too. Shot 40 lead balls today. 15 through the Navy, which did just what I expected it to do, and the rest using 4 chambers on the Army...https://goo.gl/photos/MrEovgoLF3b8etAaA        As usual, pictures:  Big surprise, it came in a pistol box...just big enough for both of them. My regular case is getting a bit crowded....
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Trall on May 11, 2016, 19:30:51 PM
NICE video and you got a great deal on your 1860.  That and you had tore it down to hundred pieces and put it all back together.  Hats off to your skills ;D
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: gdrudd13 on May 12, 2016, 08:16:50 AM
Shooting black powder is so much fun. Hardest part though is finding a place where you can shoot them. Around here several of the ranges don't allow them. But if you do find a place, so much fun.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on May 12, 2016, 19:52:41 PM
Thanks. for all ...I have  new hobby...buying guns that people screw up and fixing them...now to find a beat up Garand!
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: DC on May 16, 2016, 17:41:53 PM
Quote from: Troll on May 12, 2016, 19:52:41 PM
Thanks. for all ...I have  new hobby...buying guns that people screw up and fixing them...now to find a beat up Garand!

Well, when you find it, check out this place for all kinds of extra Garand parts.  At one point, they stocked Garand DIY kits, but they are out of stock now.  http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/search.aspx?find=M1+Garand (http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/search.aspx?find=M1+Garand)  This place is known as the go-to place around here for all sorts of old military arms.  They have loads of foreign military stuff too.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: gdrudd13 on May 17, 2016, 07:56:55 AM
The Garand is really fun to shoot. So much so that I have two... Recoil on them isn't bad at all (at least by my standards) and they can be extremely accurate. Downside is they're a bit heavy, but that helps the recoil mentioned above.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on May 17, 2016, 18:30:54 PM
I used to shoot competition with a National Match Garand at 400 yds. I qualified expert on the DCM course with a Garand....I would settle for an M-14...or maybe a JOHNSON!!!!...or an '03-A3...or an Enfield....or....or...even a K-98!
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: gdrudd13 on May 18, 2016, 08:00:04 AM
The Enfields are nice to shoot as well. I have two of those as well, but different variations. K-98's are nice but bring a premium. A good alternative is the Yugo M48 Mauser. Basically a K98 clone without as high of a price.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on May 18, 2016, 19:56:55 PM
Everything from WW II has gone through the roof. I was also considering an Argentine Mauser..No rush, there are plenty of poor, neglected BP pistols out there, looking for a loving home.....Kinda like rescue dogs...by the way, a trip out to the range today yielded a 4 shot group @ 25 yards of 1 1/2"..the 5th one didn't "sound" right...don't know where it went...I believe I under charged the chamber...just sounded funny. I popped the barrel off, looking to see if it just went half way, but it was gone...I'll take the 4 shot group, however!
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: 49Reo on May 30, 2016, 13:12:57 PM
I'm currently dealing on an original Remington New Model, looks amazing considering it's age. Totally shoot able, price is the big deterrent......$1800.00Cdn. But, due to being an antique, manufactured prior to 1895, it does not require registering it with the RCMP, thus when the 'Big Sweep' happens, it will still be there afterwards.....but $1800 is a LOT of cash..... :(
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on May 30, 2016, 16:58:44 PM
What about the Italian replicas? Here, they are not considered firearms, for what ever reason, and they fall into the same category as the antiques they are reproduction of. My ROA is a Pietta, and it shoots and acts like a modern revolver, but it's exempt from any registering or background checks..Paid $199 for it on sale...Just shooting it, today, as a matter of fact...2" groups at 25 yards.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: 49Reo on May 30, 2016, 19:57:26 PM
Unfortunately, the powers that be aren't well versed in firearms. A flintlock rifle, no matter the date of manufacture, is considered an antique, even if it was made yesterday. A flintlock pistol, however, is considered a 'restricted' weapon, thus requiring registration. All replica percussion rifles and revolvers as well as single shot pistols, are considered weapons, not antiques, ant all percussion lock handguns require registering as restricted weapons. Thus the Remington...
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: gdrudd13 on May 31, 2016, 08:59:11 AM
wow, that sucks. Is it hard to get a gun considered "restricted"?
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: 49Reo on June 01, 2016, 11:17:10 AM
It usually takes 2 weeks from date of purchase to get clearance to transport home. And can only be transported to and from an approved gun range.

The application for restricted license is a horror show; they phone all references, they try to trap you into saying something that might make it look like you will use it in a threatening or dangerous manner. Take up to 3 months to receive the license. Utter insanity...
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on June 01, 2016, 15:11:26 PM
One of the reasons I have been buying handguns since I moved from New York...6 months would be a short time to wait, there...more like 2 years, even with black powder weapons...
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: greenbarn on June 01, 2016, 20:06:22 PM
That does sound like insanity....   which is probably what we'll get if a certain female gets enough votes....
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: gdrudd13 on June 02, 2016, 08:18:03 AM
49, that sounds pretty terrible. I'm lucky in that I live in a very gun-friendly state (Kansas) so we don't have to deal with all that. Unless we want to get a concealed carry license. Then that sounds about right. Which complaining about how long that took, and the hoops you have to jump through doesn't seem like as big of a deal now knowing what you guys have to go through to get any firearm.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: 49Reo on June 02, 2016, 11:15:27 AM
Getting a permit to carry up here is all but impossible. Very few people ever qualify. To add to the insanity of our country's firearms laws, if someone breaks in to your house and steals a gun, you the homeowner will be charged with improper storage of a firearm. If it is used in the commision of a crime, look out. So many of our laws, U.S. too, I expect, are geared more to protecting the rights of those accused of committing a crime than protecting the rights of the victim. Our lawmakers need to be o the receiving end of their own laws; maybe the would change their views somewhat. But I doubt it..... :)
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: DC on June 03, 2016, 22:36:27 PM
Quote from: greenbarn on June 01, 2016, 20:06:22 PM
That does sound like insanity....   which is probably what we'll get if a certain female gets enough votes....

Agreed!
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on June 13, 2016, 16:48:44 PM
Got another little gem last week. Had a chance, finally, to fire it. It's a 5" .36 cal. brass framed Colt Navy repro made by a company that is out of business. It's 38 years old, and had never been fired, until today... Here's a link to it's debut, and a target I shot with it, today. Either I'm getting better or it is
https://goo.gl/photos/eDu4gYsUrbhgwA8b7
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: 49Reo on June 15, 2016, 17:33:00 PM
Pretty good! What distance and what loads?
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on June 15, 2016, 18:12:25 PM
50', 80 gr. Hornady .375 roundball, 15 gr. Pyrodex P, and CCI #10 caps...This is a 5" barrel model, so I figured that 50' was getting near the max for target accuracy. My 1860 Armys, with the 8" barrel and 138 gr .451s are good to about 50 yards, and my Remington is still good at 75 yards.  The limiting factor with these guns, besides having no real sights, is my eyesight...
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: 49Reo on June 16, 2016, 00:11:50 AM
I hear ya. Where did you get the adjustable battle sights for your 1911? I've been looking for a good rear sight, not much to be found up here.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on June 16, 2016, 07:55:20 AM
I got the sight on eBay. If you know what dovetail you need, the sights are available directly from the manufacturer of that sight. Example: I wrote to Novak and got a price quote on a direct replacement. Depends on the dovetail cut....
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: 49Reo on June 17, 2016, 13:27:57 PM
Thank you, good sir!
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: greenbarn on June 17, 2016, 17:31:46 PM
Quote from: 49Reo on June 17, 2016, 13:27:57 PM
Thank you, good sir!

Ya know, if you come to WI to the Coulee Cruzin, you can check out Trolls 1911....
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: CDNRatMan on June 17, 2016, 19:28:25 PM
  you might be one of the few who actually gets to go to Troll's house under the bridge and see his gun collection one evening.......lol......
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on June 18, 2016, 18:31:32 PM
Here's part of it....maybe by Sunday evening I'll have a Griswold and Gunnerson, too
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on July 02, 2016, 20:42:55 PM
I have a new "conspicuity" device I added to my riding gear.......
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: CDNRatMan on July 02, 2016, 23:49:05 PM
 What is so "conspicuity" with the roll of paper behind you, if it was 6 ft long and used to take out people perhaps.......
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on July 03, 2016, 17:06:38 PM
That's roll of TARGETS!!!!!
The new device is the Confederate Cavalry Holster with the Griswold and Gunnison  revolver in it!
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: DC on July 05, 2016, 08:00:44 AM
Quote from: Troll on July 03, 2016, 17:06:38 PM
The new device is the Confederate Cavalry Holster with the Griswold and Gunnison  revolver in it!

Did you purposely position it for cross-draw?  Or is it just easier or more ergonomic to carry it that way?
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: CDNRatMan on July 05, 2016, 08:31:53 AM
 8)  ???  ::) ok a roll of targets, thought it was your self defence weapon. Holster with a gun in it, how unique.
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on July 05, 2016, 20:17:41 PM
The Confederate cavalry holster was won on the right side, with the gun butt forward for 2 reasons. The primary cavalry weapon was the saber, and that was used with the right hand, the pistol was a secondary weapon, and they used it with the left hand, or they could use what was called the cavalry draw with the right hand, and the angle of the tilt and the position made it almost unnoticed while seated in the saddle, and the draw could be done while seated...I can attest to the comfort of carrying it like that, almost forgot I was wearing it...
Title: Re: Self Defense weapon
Post by: Troll on September 11, 2016, 17:05:27 PM
Went to a friend's house today with a "new" .36 Navy Colt. I put it together from parts sourced in various unlikely places, including eBay. Put 21 shots through it and I'm pretty happy with it. On the way home, I turned 108,000 on the Drifter...all in all, a good day