Ok, not sure were to start now. A week ago I did add a trailer harness for my bike, ran with it for a week without problem. I also have an iPhone jack which plug in the battery tender plug. And in the side compartment I have a cigar plug with USB for charging device directly wired on the battery with a fuse. For lighting I have a special set up on front which is working flawlessly, main headlight with two 30 watts amber driving light wired on the front accessory in the headlight which act also as turn signals with a relay. At the back I've put the front turn signals with red lens and they're use as position and turn signals.
Ok now the recent nightmare. Yesterday I was ready for a camping trip. Plug the trailer, the iPhone, and one sena communication device on the USB in the side compartment. 5 km down the road the engine dies, and no electrical. After investigation I realized that the main 30 amp fuse is blown. I said to myself that I've reach the limit of my generator. Unplug the USB charger and the iPhone, change the fuse and went on a 300 km trip without any problem. On the way back I realized that my front turn signal connected on the front accessory are not working. Back home I checked the fuse and the accessory front 10 amp was blown. I put a new one in and the main 30 amp blow up. I replace the 30, check the accessory 10 and everything seem fine. Before putting the fuse box back in I decide to start the engine to see if everything was fine. A big smoke came from near the fuse box, so I stopped everything. The wire to the front accessory blew open and melted. After further investigation I realized that the wire blew on all it's length splitting the wrapping on the main loom from the fuse box to the headlight. It may have been problem with the front accessory or a short between the fuse box or the main fuse box and the frame, not sure yet. Investigation is going on, the loom is off the frame, probably need to be replace in case some other wire melted in the process or at least replace. not sure were to start for finding the cause of all this, it would be quite annoying to replace the loom just to have it melted again.....any clues from the audience?
ok electrical is not my strong suit, but seems you have a lot of draw on the system, You will have to find out what the output is on the bike then see what you can change to make it a lighter load. I know GB had issues with his 800 when he swapped out his spot lights to 55 watts, and I put LED lights in my spots, lot less draw on the system. The rear signal/ marker lights are drawing more then normal I'll bet. Makes me wonder if the bike is made to haul a trailer.
...sounds like the mighty Troll needs to weigh in here. This is right up his alley. Just sayin'......
Everything went fine with all the lighting, the trailer and the iphone, for about two weeks the problem just appeared when i plugged the sena for charging....maximum 5-10 watts draw. Then the rest is a cascading effect from that event!
not sure if this helps but found this and now I am wondering if I am reading it correctly.
Wait for Troll to explain all this electrical stuff and educate us ....
You have the harness out, right now. Unwrap it and trace any wires/separate any that melted together. Insulate them and/or replace them with new wire, if the insulation is breached. Sounds like something shorted to ground on the supply side to your accessories. Don't over load the individual stock wiring circuits. You would be much better off installing an aux. fuse box to handle extra loads. Once you have repaired the harness, and it's reinstalled, add things one at a time, making sure there are no shorts to ground
You added way more electrical load to the bike than it was designed to handle. Troll's recommendations are right on.
Robert you might want to look at this item.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8aKE5H9k-A
I'm certainly not the first one to run a trailer with a drifter 800. The only additional load is the light bar, and I been running it for two years without any problem. I think that maybe the two problem are two separate thing that happen together but not necessarly related. Maybe the system was temporairly overload when the main fuse blew. But I dont see why it would only melt the front accesory wire? When the wire melted the fuse box was hanging on the side of the frame when I started the bike to test the main fuse, so it might have shorted there. But if the short happened there would'nt the wire be only melted between the fuse box and the short? The other thing that puzzles me is tha the 10a fuse did'nt blew, after the melt the fuse was still fine? Any explanation why? It should have blown and left the wire Ok? How come it did'nt?
every fuse has 2 sides. load and supply. The fuse protects the load side, the main fuse protects the supply side
By the way the front accessory that blew up is on a fuse of it's own, so no need for an auxiliary box. It most go trough the main switch so trough the 30a fuse.
Quote from: Troll on August 15, 2015, 18:42:46 PM
every fuse has 2 sides. load and supply. The fuse protects the load side, the main fuse protects the supply side
I understand, but normally if the supply side of the fuse has a short circuit, the extra load on the wire should burn the fuse before the wire melt, no?
The main fuse, yes. The problem is that the supply to the main fuse is not fuse protected. Cars use a thing called a fuseable link which is just a wire that is designed to melt and protect the rest of the main harness
I have some questions but will hold off till we can solve Robert's issues.
Quote from: Troll on August 15, 2015, 19:18:19 PM
The main fuse, yes. The problem is that the supply to the main fuse is not fuse protected. Cars use a thing called a fuseable link which is just a wire that is designed to melt and protect the rest of the main harness
But the melt down happened on the front accessory wire, so between the fuse box and the accesory, not the fuse box and the battery, so the 10a fuse shoud have taken the blow, not the wire. What could have happen so the fuse did'nt blow, but made the wire melt?
I wish I could see the harness, but I can't all I would do now is repair it and put it back. No need to replace a whole harness for a couple of damaged wires.
That's what i'll do, but I would have liked to get an idea of the problem, so it won't happen as soon as I restart the bike. Thanks for your help mates!
connect just the factory stuff first, then move on to the add ons
Well, harness has been removed, repaired, cable replaced and reinstalled on the bike. Re-did all the tail light wiring and the rear turn signal so they are used only as turn signal back again (i did une front turn signals at the back to be more visible, but people following told me the the turn signals was a lot less visible this way), ordered led for the trailer, and 24watts beam for my driving/ turn signals, redid some wiring up front. Now everythins is up and running.....keeping my finger cross. Anybody know how much wattage or amp we can use on the 800 ? thanks all for the help!
The service manual rates the alt. at 23.5 A. Not a whole lot, but all you really have to run is the headlight, taillight, and the ign system. A 1500 has the electronics and fuel pump to run, so that wouldn't be nearly enough. They don't break down the electrical load by user, so the best thing you can do is keep your use to a minimum.
Did you use crimp connectors or solder and shrink tube? Crimps are okay for a roadside fix, but tend to corrode over time which causes nothing but trouble.
Quote from: 49Reo on August 17, 2015, 19:37:05 PM
Did you use crimp connectors or solder and shrink tube? Crimps are okay for a roadside fix, but tend to corrode over time which causes nothing but trouble.
This is another big debate. Many proffesionnal claim that crimping is the best way to do it and that solder is the least reliable. But to accomplish this reliability you need high end crimping tool, and good connector. Before I got a good crimping tool i relied mainly on solder but got a few problem with it. Now I mainly crimped and sometime use just a tiny bit of solder. Shrink tube again is a must, good thick one.
Rob
I use a product called "Liquid electrical tape" it is a black gooey mixture that I put on soldered connection, then slide shrink tube over and heat it up; it oozes out as tube shrinks, making a water proof connection. Over the years I have done a lot of vehicle wiring and had repair a lot of other peoples wiring, the only problems I have ever had on connections are those done with crimp connections with the exception of one: my son bought a used Jeep TJ, it had an issue with the main wire from the alternator; I undid the connection to find that someone (PO) had twisted the wires together and used seal-all and tape; never had a soldered joint that was sealed corrode. But, each to their own... I always pack some stakons and crimping pliers for road side fixes, but always redo them when I get home.
Solder and seal with heat shrink. You can use a 25 watt iron and electronic solder. It has a low melting point, and does the job without overheating the insulation nearby.
The main argument against solder joint by professional is that when you solder a multi strand wire, it basically become a solid strand wire, wich might be ok in home electricity but is really not recommended in a vehicule with the vibration. When it breaks it will break completely, but keep touching making intermittent connection wich is a real nightmare! That is why all harness wiring is done in multi-strand.
The reasons you state are valid, but they really only apply to those joints that are TOO BIG. You want to make the connections as small as possible and NEVER have several in a row, they should all be staggered. The absolute best repair has a wire joiner soldered and sealed at the point of the repair. We spent quite a bit of time at the G.M. Special Electronics School I went to learning how to solder and seal connections and do it so there was zero resistance and possibility of atmospheric intrusion (Weather-Pac connectors). Most people just blob it on...that's not how it's supposed to be done.
Okay all you tech wizards... how about doing a video and/or write-up on:
1) proper soldering
and
2) proper crimping
I may be able to find some online, but would rather have a Drifter rider do it!
I've barely been able to keep up on this thread, but thought I'd weigh in on this. Nanook, to have such a catastrophic problem (melted wiring), like others have said, sounds like you had a short to ground on your harness- could just be a really small spot rubbed on a wire - these are hard to find. Hard shorts to ground sometimes do weird things, they are so instantaneous. The fuse SHOULD blow, sure, but who knows.
As far as solder vs. crimp: this is complicated. There are varying degrees of "soldering" (based on the skill of the "solderer" ) and CERTAINLY varying degrees / qualities of crimp connectors. I'd say soldering is preferred if 1) you have been factory-trained in soldering or are very good at soldering and 2) you have plenty of time, or don't have many connections to make. Otherwise: if you use GOOD QUALITY heat-shrink crimp connectors - AND you crimp correctly --- I'd tend to lean towards the crimping method. I run an auto repair shop - we probably use a couple hundred crimp connectors a year - and have never had a come-back for bad connectors. Yes, I have fixed hundreds of poor crimp connectors, but if you do it right and use quality connectors it works real well. And crimp connectors take about 1/10 the time as soldering. I'm in the process of doing custom lights on my 800, and I have about 50 connections - I'm using heat shrink crimp connectors - about 15 seconds per connection vs. much longer for soldering. Either way you do it, you have to do it right. If you are really good at soldering this might be just the thing. If you are not, there is much greater risk of bad joints, IMO, than crimp connectors. But, then, you have to do the crimp connectors right, too. It's much easier to learn to crimp than to solder.
I buy good quality heat shrink connectors, and have a good quality crimper - it doesn't have to be a $100 crimper, but has to crimp well without pinching the insulation in half. Got any "scotchlock" connectors that you just pinch together and they pierce the insulation and connect the wires? Throw them away, they're junk. The scotchlocks with the gel in them are OK, but not as durable as a good heat-shrink connector. I buy mine from Terminal Supply, but I'm sure there are others that are OK. Likewise, the cheap vinyl (non-shrink) connectors - they're OK, maybe, for under the dash of your old truck, but leave them off your bike.
One last thought.. for what it's worth, if you notice almost all of the factory connectors, auto or motorcycle, are crimp-type connectors.
Well, I talked to my mechanic this morning. He told me that The genrator is good for 350 watts on a drifter 800 wich is just under 30 amps and that the bike stock, uses about 110 watts. So we have 240 watts free, roughly 20 amps. So he's shure that I haven't overload the system, even with the trailer, since all my adds on on the bike is under 80 watts, and the trailer is under 40 watts. He told me that he installed heated grip, and plug for heated garment without any problem by limiting other add-on.
The stock alternator on an 800 Drifter, has a 23.5amp capacity at 8000 rpm... about 329w. At idle you will not have that same capacity. People who simply up the wattage on bulbs in a light bar sometimes have problems with the alternator keeping the battery charged.
It looks to me like you are pushing or exceeding the capacity of the alternator... if the stock bike uses 110w , and your adds are 120w with trailer - you are at about 18a. Your heated grip is about 2.5a. So, you are at 20.5a. I don't know what else you have running.
I bought a new trailer once and had a hitch and wiring professionally added to my van. With the trailer hooked up I'd end up blowing a breaker in the brake lighting system. I bought a bike trailer and no problems. Apparently something in the other trailer was not wired correctly.
I don't have heated grips, my mech was just telling me that he often added heated grips and other heated options on the drifter without any problems, so not to worry, up here we often ride in near freezing temperature 0-5 Celsius. It seems that the bike is not as anemic as we were led to believe. And you got to remember that rarely are all the options and flasher and everything on at the same time.
I'm a master certified auto mechanic, and from experience if it's an electronic circuit very precise soldering, if it's just power supply then use weather tight crimps. Heat shrink with an epoxy sealant keeps vibration from being an issue and is super secure
;) Ok now after all this soldering instructions, are we any closer to the cause or reason of the wiring failing?
I tow a trailer with my 800. All led lighting on the trailer. Marker lights removed from the trailer. Blinkers converted to led on the bike. I have spots on the front, but I leave the switch in the off position when towing a trailer.
No additional electrical added to the bike except heated clothing.
All seem good now, never been able to pinpoint the problem, there might have been a hard short on the main harness rubbing on a head bolt, but it's impossible to know for sure since the harness blew open on a large part of it's lenght. You also got to be careful about led turn signal. If the blinker still use the original blinker relay and they flash at a regular rate, this mean that during installation the tech added a resistance the equivalent of the old bulb, so you don't save any wattage this way!