I have a strange fault on my 1500 drifter and just wondered if anyone else had experienced it. The fault is under hard acceleration and only in second gear the engine suddenly surges starts pulling then surges again, it is quite unnerving especially if you have a pillion. During normal riding it behaves as it should,just under fairly hard acceleration. Any suggestions would be most appreciated.
It sounds like a blocked injector.
John.
I don't think it's an injector, since the fuel pressure goes up under a heavy load, due to the fuel pressure regulator. I would be more concerned about ignition issues. How old are the plugs? Is this more noticeable on a damp day? Heavy loads and worn spark plugs will make a miss fire that can really feel interesting. Since the 1500 has dual plugs, each fired by a separate coil, one of the plugs miss firing could give you this feeling. Damp days and 15 year old plug wires don't mix well. Possible one or more wires is leaking to ground. Again, a heavy load will reveal this problem. The fact that there is no issue when operating at reduced load indicates an ign. problem.
Shunter, what exactly to you mean by "surging"- I've had different people mean different things from using that word.
Thanks all for your input. To start with the bike had new plugs filters etc about 2.5k miles ago, the bike came with plug caps that light up when the engine is running, i dont know if they are a possible cause of the fault, what suprises me it is only in 2nd gear and under hard acceleration. Greenbarn my definition of surging is it starts pulling smoothly but very quickly the power comes in with a bang and it does this twice while in second gear, i suppose to put it another way it feels like a blocked jet has just cleared its self and you are getting a rush of petrol through. Thanks for all your help.
Another thought is that you could drain a pint of gas to check there isn't water in it.
John.
Quote from: shunter v8 on April 14, 2015, 06:53:25 AM
Thanks all for your input. To start with the bike had new plugs filters etc about 2.5k miles ago, the bike came with plug caps that light up when the engine is running, i dont know if they are a possible cause of the fault, what suprises me it is only in 2nd gear and under hard acceleration. Greenbarn my definition of surging is it starts pulling smoothly but very quickly the power comes in with a bang and it does this twice while in second gear, i suppose to put it another way it feels like a blocked jet has just cleared its self and you are getting a rush of petrol through. Thanks for all your help.
I don't know how they are where you live, but those light up plug caps cause a world of problems here, in the States. JUNK...not meant for anything but show and trailer queens! I know what Greenbarn is getting at about a symptom description...A surge is like sitting in a rocking chair....back and forth, back and forth, or perhaps the feeling you get when riding into a headwind.
ok thanks, i will start with plug caps then. The surge is quite dramatic like bike is being tied to a post and you are giving it throttle to try and go and then someone cuts the rope. it really is quite scary epecially 2 up.
Okay latest update,I had two of these light up spark plug caps so I changed them for two NGK ones I had in the garage and took it a spin. Unfortunately it's exactly the same I will try and explain the symptoms better. I got the bike warmed up and did a standing start,first gear under hard acceleration no problem,second gear starts pulling then it's like hitting a very bad flat spot then getting full power back and then it does the same again almost straight away we are still in second gear,third,fourth and fifth gear all fine under hard acceleration. It has vance and Hines on it which I thought may have been the culprit,I had to get the bike government tested when I bought it and I had to put an original exhaust on it then and it was still the same.
This is ONLY in 2nd gear? Very strange...
Yes only second gear. That's what I find so strange about it.
I gotta think about this...weird
That is weird.... So just skip second gear... :o
Look closely- does it always happen at the exact same speed (not rpm but mph)? Hmmm... or something slipping inside the throttle body...?
Sounds similar to what I feel when I hit the rev limiter - is it possible you're hitting the rev limiter only in second gear? It wouldn't be weird that you cant go fast enough to hit the rev limit in 4th and 5th, but I would think you should be able to hit it in 3rd (and for sure in 1st & 2nd 8)
Or, could be your ECU is not measuring RPMs properly. Check the ECU connector pins - That's been a trouble spot for me.
Thanks guys, i would say it happens at RPM rather than mph, and only in 2nd gear, i tried to get it to do it in first and third but it did not do it. where abouts is the ecu located and i will have a look at the connections. It has not reved out enough for it to be the rev limiter as it happens fairly quick after hitting 2nd gear.
I think the rev limiter kicks in at about 5k but not certain of the exact number.
The ECU is located under the seat beside the battery. Easiest to remove the battery first to get at the ECU.
I've had an ongoing issue with the female connector pins breaking - easily spotted by looking closely at the 'mouth' of the female pins.
I've been thinking about this, and 1, I don't believe there is a rev limiter on this engine. The redline is 5,900....but this is not about that, since it would be much easier to hit the limit in 1st...Now..some seemingly unrelated questions...How well and accurately does it shift? Is there any funny noise related to this problem? Do you still have the heel portion of your shifter installed? What I'm getting at is there has been some indication that the early models had an issue with 1-2 shift forks. I know mine had a few teeth knocked off the cluster gear, and a bent 1-2 fork when I bought it. It would hop out of 2nd and slam back in under a load....Just a thought....Like the old joke: "Doctor, it hurts when I do this"...Doctor: "Stop doing that!"
I'm not sure about other model years but my 01 definitely has a rev limiter. I hit the limit occasionally when downshifting to pass.
Thanks guys, it is a 2004 model,it has done 30k miles, it has not got the heel/toe gearchange lever it has a chrome one on it. This fault is happening well before a rev limiter would kick in. i will check ecu connections and report back, it does feel more elecrical/ fuel related but i am open to try anything.
It is a shot. How old is your clutch fluid? I had something similar to where the little hole in the bottom of the reservoir was clogging up with old fluid that had crystallized. At certain rpm ranges it caused the clutch to disengage. I'm not sure if that matches your description of a surge.
That is interesting and symptoms are similar,it's why only in second gear is confusing me. I have not changed clutch fluid so would do no harm to do it. Thanks
Your fluid should be clear. The heat turns it from clear to yellow to brown and causes it to crystalize. If your fluid is brown, there is probably going to be some sludge on the bottom of the reservior. I have heard stories of many people having to replace their clutches at 5000-7000 miles. I would suspect this was their problem. Hopefully this is your problem because it is a very cheap fix. Either way, now you will have clean fluid so there is no loss. Make sure you cover your bike before opening the reservior.
The clutch is also something I thought about right at first, because the clutch is a known problem on the 1500's. But it doesn't really make sense it only happens in 2nd.
I had the same thoughts myself but as I do not know when it was last changed its got to be worth a try.
Quote from: shunter v8 on April 19, 2015, 06:15:30 AM
I had the same thoughts myself but as I do not know when it was last changed its got to be worth a try.
shunter v8, Did you ever get your problem solved ?
I have to be honest and say no,because we have just got in to riding weather and I have had to get out. I hope to start trying the different suggestions very soon. I suppose because it only happens under hard acceleration and most of the time you would not know it's there you tend to forget about it or you ride accordingly. It is something that I do want to sort out,once I have had a few more rides I will buckle down and attempt to get to the bottom of the problem.
;) can you go straight long enough to wind it out and shift into anything other then second gear?
Now now Ratman you are being a bit naughty. Let me give you a lesson on our roads we have approximately 500 miles of roads to be fair a lot are tracks which you would not want to ride. The island is 35 miles by 14 miles ok not very big. The TT circuit is 37.75 miles on public roads with 225 bends the fastest average speed is 130 mph with top speeds exceeding 200 mph. TT is 4 weeks away where our population rises from 80k to 120k the island nearly sinks. Bring it on I can't wait.
;) ok and a again, how many roads can you really ride on legally? Our island of PEI is larger then that. When have you had the Drifter to 130 on a bend? Let alone 200 mph. First off when Andrea sees this you are in for a gobsmacking along side the head. So rent out the Castle Shunter and come over here for Drift In and Andrea would be happy to met all of us..........
Ah that is why I also have a fireblade in the stable. Drift in sounds brilliant and Andrea is a lot more sociable than me and would dance the night away. To be honest it would be great to meet up. If only :-[
Ok I need to see Andrea on the fireblade to believe you......oh my fine friend Uncle Malcolm decided to show me this picture also.......
Castle Shunter on the Isle....and you claim to be poor .......Laird Shunter.....
LOL that's why I am poor. ;D
Are there any additives in the engine oil? Teflon and other friction enhancers do slip the clutch and should not be used. I must say you would have found out soon enough, riding over a bump in the road, still this could be left unmentioned and there is quite a bit of cushioning from the dampers.
QuoteThe clutch is also something I thought about right at first, because the clutch is a known problem on the 1500's. But it doesn't really make sense it only happens in 2nd.
Worn clutches can slip at low speed. In second gear is where I really expect to notice. This is supposedly happening when force is applied. The bike was ridden as a Christmas tree, only because it could? The owner must have had high demands and probably bought miracle oil.
The more I make the bike do it I really think it is electrical or fuel related but to be fair it will not write off anything until I have tried it.
Just Curious. Did you ever get it figured out?
That new seat probably straightened it out.....
I really will have to knuckle down and start looking for the fault,GB is sort of right since fitting the new seat I have sort of just taken it easy in second gear,as I just wanted to ride it. I will start looking soon I promise ;)
Do you actually have a stretch o straight road on the Ilse that lets you get to second gear? I need to look closely at a map of that place.....
Ratman we have two, Ballamodha straight is 2miles long and mountain mile. No shortage of empty roads to test it out. It happened to me last night when I opened it up in 2nd gear and I thought then,I really need to get to the bottom of this very annoying fault.
Hope you get it solved soon, it is like having a cricket in the house and can not find it.....
That's a very good description ratman,that's exactly what I would imagine it would be like but we don't have crickets. ;)
Here you go, Shunter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd0fBXwDBmo
Put this on your stereo, preferably with surround sound, and play it tonight. It'll make you sleep good.. 8)
Thanks greenbarn, I think I can safely say after a sleepless 10 hours,I am glad we don't have crickets. ;D
Your welcome... ;)
::) GB it is fine I am sending him some stuff he asked for and in the parcel I'll add a doz of the wee little devils for him......free of course.
Quote from: CDNRatMan on June 19, 2015, 22:37:59 PM
::) GB it is fine I am sending him some stuff he asked for and in the parcel I'll add a doz of the wee little devils for him......free of course.
LOL
I am glad this all came up after the corbin was sent. ;D
Shunter your still my favorite Isle of Mann,er...........
Just finally started to read this thread. I too experience this same rapid kick in the a$$
acceleration that you are describing.Wide open throttle into 2nd gear and then it hits a point where the bike just takes off. Hit 3rd gear at the right point and it takes off hard again. Mine has always done this.
I just wrote it off as the engine revving up into its power band and is a normal characteristic.
My nephew's GSXR does the same thing, just more dramatic, and you better be hanging on when
it kicks in on that bike or your sliding off the back.
aralph
Ah the plot thickens,sounds exactly the same symptoms but I only get it in second gear.