Well I ordered a new ignition switch for my 2001 drifter because it wouldn't start. I turns over fine. Lights come on. I ran a positive to fuel pump it comes on. Any ideas past this ?
Oh the new switch did not work
I have colored the pertinent circuits. If I read your message correctly, the bike will run if you put power to the fuel pump.
The computer relies on a signal on pin 5 to tell it that everything is correct. If the pump does not run with the key, there can only be a couple of possible problems. Sure, the computer could be bad, but these are pretty robust, so that's like the last thing to worry about. There is no point in running the self diagnostic program, the computer will not set a fail code until the engine starts. You can rule out the tip over switch, too. That kills the spark, and you have spark. Check the GROUND to the pump....There is no "fuel pump relay" as such, it uses one main DFI relay to power everything.
Which one is the ground to the pump ?
The one colored blue
Ok what color on the pump ? So if I ground it the bike should start ?
white/red is B+ off the relay, the other one (black/white) runs to ground through the computer...
First, how did you know the switch was the problem in the first place? Did you test the switch and find a fault?
There are a lot of reasons why a bike will crank but not start...
No I was reading on here and most said replace ignition switch so I did. Didn't help :)
Quote from: Harleymanz on June 25, 2014, 11:50:32 AM
No I was reading on here and most said replace ignition switch so I did. Didn't help :)
Do you hear the fuel pump come on and prime the system?
No fuel pump did not come on. I ran a line from battery to fuel pump and it came on and bike started and stuttered and quit
OK...so here's what I'm going to do. The weather here is currently pretty nasty, with thunderstorms and torrential rain, like we've been having all "spring", so I decided to try to help with this problem some people are having by taking voltage and resistance readings on my own bike, and publishing them here. I'm going out the garage right now, and I'll have the readings, a diagram and a picture of the mysterious "pin 5" on the computer, and it's voltage from the switch to the pin.
Ok, back from the garage. I have pictures! First off, let me apologize for assuming everybody can read and understand a wiring diagram. I've been in the auto service business for 45 years, and I'm a G.M. special electronics tech, or was, before I "retired". I look at these systems and I can automatically see how they work. I know that not everybody looks at these and can do that. These are really simple circuits, especially compared to a car, so let's look at what I found. First off, no matter which book you look in, pin 5 on the white plug of the computer is listed as unused. This is NOT true. I fought for and got this information from Kawasaki's dealer only tech line. Pin 5 carries a reference voltage from the ign. switch to prove to the computer that the switch has not been tampered with. I back probed the connector and got a ref. voltage of 0.765 V D.C. Back probed??? What does that mean... Simply, it means you take a long, thin needle (I snagged one with a big knob on the end) and slide it down along the wire past the weatherproof seal, until it bottoms out against the connector. YOU DO NOT PIERCE THE WIRE!!!! This method gives the most accurate results without damaging the harness. Without this signal to the computer, then fuel pump will not run. I hope the diagrams make more sense, now. There is a power ground for the fuel pump that goes through the computer. At key up, the ground is complete, and the pump runs for 2 seconds. If you don't start the engine, the ground goes open (no path for power flow). If the engine is running, the path to ground is continuous as long as the power is on.
I used the pin down on wire 5 got the required voltage. Still no pump. You are talking about a ground. Is there a way of testing that ? I so owe you what ever beverage you drink ! Is there a fuse I may be missing ?
Ok update I pierced a wire on gas tank positive ran it to the positive on battery. Fuel pump came on and bike started to turn over and then died after I removed wire.
The pump is not being controlled by the computer, as it's supposed to be. If you have to put B+ to the wire at the pump, then there is most likely an open circuit between the relay and the pump. There is a junction where the B+ wire runs to pin 31 on the computer (turns it on) and the main efi relay. There should be power at all the points with the arrow pointing to them. The relay is ok, because the computer will not turn on without it. Simple broken wires will make you crazy until you find them
Where do I start ? Ticket to Florida ? :).
Check for power at the points listed with the key on.
Ok will do I noticed a clicking sound down near the fuel injector and I had to feed the positive to the fuel pump a few times before it would actually pump any sign of another problem ?
Probably not
Can I get a pic of which pin feeds the fuel pump. Can I run a new wire from ignition to feed it ?
It's the pin with the red/white wire coming out of the EFI relay under the right side cover.
Another dumb question could it be the efi ?
If you put power to the pump, it runs. It's most likely a problem with this single wire. When the relay energizes, the pump should run, but it doesn't, so the voltage, which you measured at the connector, is not there, unless you jump the power from the battery...Correct? I'm still looking at a bad connection/broken wire between the relay and the pump...This stuff is so hard to figure out by remote control! Put power to the pump, leave it connected, and start the engine. DO NOT remove the power, and see what happens. I'll bet it continues to run.
I just now did that connected power to the wire on the pump started the bike and it continued to run. It takes a few times touching the battery though to get the pump to come on. The bike does run when it's connected this way. As soon as I remove the wire it dies. I am suspecting something else is wrong since it just clicks a few times before the pump kicks in. It did this before itermittingly before when the bike was running until it finally quit. Your doing great at distance troubleshooting I wish I was more adept at reading your diagrams so I could help more thank you very much for your assistance
You're in great hands with Troll!
He's very generous with his time and knowledge, that's for sure!
Great information Troll..but I Have to ask, I have a year 2000 'J1' which has less pins on the ICU..Isn't that diagram for a different model.
John.
The diagram is for an "R", and that's what he's got. I'm thinking that the actual fuel pump power circuit is going to be the same. One of the reasons that the J has fewer pins is that it has a mechanical speedometer, so no V.S.S. input..
Quote from: Troll on July 03, 2014, 08:27:25 AM
If you put power to the pump, it runs. It's most likely a problem with this single wire. When the relay energizes, the pump should run, but it doesn't, so the voltage, which you measured at the connector, is not there, unless you jump the power from the battery...Correct? I'm still looking at a bad connection/broken wire between the relay and the pump...This stuff is so hard to figure out by remote control! Put power to the pump, leave it connected, and start the engine. DO NOT remove the power, and see what happens. I'll bet it continues to run.
Ok I came up with this bike starts and runs pum cycles on a stops till I start the bike like it should.
This seems to work ! Bad good idea ?
Let me ask you a question: Early on you said you checked fuses, etc. Did you check the EFI main fuse in the white connector next to the battery? If the bike runs with your jumper in place, then the wiring from the relay to both the EFI computer and the fuel pump must be good, but there is no power coming out of the relay. If you were to put power on the r/w wire up at the tank connector, the same thing would happen. Power for the computer and the fuel pump both come from the same terminal on the relay, and the wire splits, one leg going to the pump, and one leg going to the computer. What you have proved is that, except for the loss of power to the pump, all the other expensive and hard to get parts are good. Now you need to hunt down why there is no power from the relay. Remove your jumper, and turn on the key..the EFI light should come on, if it doesn't, then there is no power on the output of the relay...so either the relay is bad, or the fuse in the white fuse holder is blown/loose...