I'm chainging the oil in the Drifter and having difficulty removing te oil screen. I've broke the nut and the thing just keeps spinning not backing itself off the bolt. I must being something wrong.
Okay, I need some help. Forget the oil screen for now. I've drained the oil and after 5K the engine has apparently used quite a lot of oil. Less than one quart drained. I took the air box cover off and found clean red oil in the filter rim and inside the air box cover. I switched to a k&n air filter last oil change. What is going on?
No oil in the throttle box
Edit: I'm now thinking the oil in the air box is the oil used to oil the K&N air filter.
The K&N filter oil is red; likely source. Has your bike been smoking? That's a lot of oil; mine uses none.
Quote from: 49Reo on September 14, 2013, 23:31:00 PM
The K&N filter oil is red; likely source. Has your bike been smoking? That's a lot of oil; mine uses none.
The only smoke I have noticed is the black soot that seems to more or less "spray" out of my pipes. On startup, on up shift. My plugs are new (5k) and very dark and smell of gas. I thought I was running a tad rich. Would running a rich cause that much oil usage? I have 19k on the clock.
That sounds as if your oil pump is not working, I thought all the drifters had the POG plastic oil gear replaced but if you have only been doing short runs then just maybe you have got away without doing too much damage if the pump is not working...You should take the bike to a kawasaki shop and ask them to do an oil pressure check..If the pump is not working you are looking at a very expensive repair including total removal of the engine. You can buy a 'Judges' steel gear and a kit with instructions to fit it but expect to pay over $200 for it and if you follow the instructions carefully it might be possible to do the work in about three hours..
John.
John, the Drifters don't have a pog. The trick now is to find out under what circumstances the oil is being used. I have 81,000 on mine and it has 0 oil consumption...You will need someone to follow you and determine if the engine is smoking on acceleration or on decel...Generally, worn rings will cause smoke under power, and valve guides/seals on decel...Check the vapor drain on the front of the engine, right ahead of the front cylinder. It has a pretty cheesy clamp on it.
Quote from: Troll on September 16, 2013, 15:57:22 PM
...Check the vapor drain on the front of the engine, right ahead of the front cylinder. It has a pretty cheesy clamp on it.
For what?
Question. If the bike is running rich, gasoline will dilute the oil. Will the diluted oil pass through the rings and burn out of the tail pipe? Would a tune up fix this problem?
The spark plugs have 5k roughly on them and they are dark and smell like gas.
Quote from: Petemoss on September 16, 2013, 20:37:57 PM
For what?
Question. If the bike is running rich, gasoline will dilute the oil. Will the diluted oil pass through the rings and burn out of the tail pipe? Would a tune up fix this problem?
LEAKS.....you might not notice it because of where it is. What kind of oil did you run 5,000 miles?
Amsoil.
I just noticed my oil is low too today. I just did an oil change with Mobile 1 a little while back. I need to get that stuff outta there.
Troll, I am smoking on acceleration and smell of gasoline. It's a black smoke. My plugs are also very dark after 5k and smell of gas.
How many miles on this engine? Something doesn't sound right. Have you been using the amzoil right along, or is this something new? I have seen car engines with lots of miles suddenly turn all the ring end gaps so they line up...for no apparent reason. Ring seal doesn't seem to be a problem with these engines. You are running rich, what happened to your fuel mileage? Is it sudden? Vacuum leaks at the MAP sensor and a leaking fuel pressure regulator, or even a stuck open injector could do this
Quote from: Troll on September 17, 2013, 17:59:58 PM
How many miles on this engine? Something doesn't sound right. Have you been using the amzoil right along, or is this something new? I have seen car engines with lots of miles suddenly turn all the ring end gaps so they line up...for no apparent reason. Ring seal doesn't seem to be a problem with these engines. You are running rich, what happened to your fuel mileage? Is it sudden? Vacuum leaks at the MAP sensor and a leaking fuel pressure regulator, or even a stuck open injector could do this
19k on the clock.
Amsoil from 14k or my first oil change on the bike. I think I remember soot on the fender befor I changed the oil after I bought it.
Fuel mileage is 41.5 mpg on average.
I called three techs today and they all told me I needed a power commander in order for them to dyno tune the bike. I thought aftermarket pipes and a aftermarket air filter would cause the bike to run lean? Would hotter plugs fix or put a band aid over the problem? I mean just to see If I need it dyno'd?
41.5 is pretty good, I should think. Mine was getting around 37-40 before I started tinkering with it. Did you ever get the oil screen out ? No point in trying to dyno tune an engine without the box, since that's where they are going to be fiddling with the fuel curve....Keep an eye on the oil usage, maybe the additive package in the amzoil didn't get alone with what was in there before...It's just me, but I check my oil at least once a week. I use a mechanic's mirror so I can sit on the bike and hold it straight and look at the eye...sure wish it had a dip stick.
What would happen if you overfilled it?
I did a compression test today and this is the psi.
Front cylinder 149 dry, 165 wet
Rear cylinder 125 dry, 140 wet
Sounds like the automatic compression release isn't working...manual says 50-85 psi...assuming the compression release is operating correctly. I really don't think that the compression pressures you have point to a problem with oil consumption. What do the plugs look like? Are there deposits on the electrodes? What color are the insulators...
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The plugs.
Can a compression test be done incorrectly?
Usually, oil in the combustion chamber leaves a lot more garbage than that. I've actually seen the gap bridged and the plug shorted by oil deposits. That looks like it's running a little rich, but not burning oil. Sometimes the additive package in some oils promotes oil loss during the first oil change. Pennzoil is pretty notorious for this problem until the additives build up in the system (or the sludge, your choice). Generally, I do a cold and a warm compression test, as well as a wet one. since you didn't get a huge increase in pressure from dry to wet, I wouldn't suspect a compression ring problem. The oil rings, however, cannot be tested by compression, nor cylinder leak down. Think of them more like squeegee that is supposed to push the oil back down the cylinder walls, not seal in power...I still think you need to monitor the oil usage closely and document the issue. My bike now has over 81,000 on it and has no oil consumption, but I still check it at least once a week.
"That looks like it's running a little rich, but not burning oil."
This is what I thought at first too. But, I didn't understand why. The bike comes lean from the factory and I have aftermarket roadhouse exhaust and a k&n air filter. I understand this should make the bike run leaner not richer. So, I have to believe the black soot/smoke from the exhaust is burning oil.
"Sometimes the additive package in some oils promotes oil loss during the first oil change. Pennzoil is pretty notorious for this problem until the additives build up in the system (or the sludge, your choice)"
I have now changed the oil twice. I have no clue what oil the PO used but I have used Amsoil 20-50 motorcycle oil.
"since you didn't get a huge increase in pressure from dry to wet, I wouldn't suspect a compression ring problem. The oil rings, however, cannot be tested by compression, nor cylinder leak down. Think of them more like squeegee that is supposed to push the oil back down the cylinder walls, not seal in power.."
What's a compression ring? A piston ring? If it's not a piston ring what could cause oil consumption? Valve seal?
"I still think you need to monitor the oil usage closely and document the issue."
Please don't think I'm being a smart a** but what's to document besides oil blowing out of the tailpipe on startup and acceleration? I'm a guitar playing former chef who drives truck for a living and I understand a engine about as much as I understand Latin. ;D
OK... there are 3 rings on a normal piston. usually 2 compression rings, that seal in the fire, and multi piece oil ring that scrapes the oil back down into the crankcase. The oil ring has more in common with a windshield wiper blade than anything else. As far as documenting the oil consumption, what i mean is to check oil use over miles ridden. If you do lots of round town riding or lots of highway....Valve guides are always a possible problem, although he design seems to be pretty solid, not like a Harley. On deceleration, vacuum is high in the intake manifold, because the throttle is closed. If the intake guides and seals are bad, then the oil will get sucked into the engine then. If the exhaust guides are bad, then oil will constantly leak into the exhaust stream and be burned in the pipes. No oil is actually burned by the fire in the engine...Ring leakage causes the oil to be burned under load, but your compression readings don't indicate there is a problem with the compression seal. Checking the oil regularly and noting the mileage will give you a better picture of when and ho much oil you are really going through. I'm still thinking you have a leak somewhere...
Quote from: Troll on October 06, 2013, 19:26:15 PM
I'm still thinking you have a leak somewhere...
Through the exhaust guides?
Anything is possible, but I'm thinking more like through the crankcase breather system. First thing I would do is see just how much you are actually using, and then that will give you a clue as to where to begin looking. Rings mean a lot of oil pretty quickly, guides mean a smaller amount over a longer period of time, and more consumption if you ride where you have to do a lot of slowing, thus creating a higher vacuum load on the intake. Exhaust guides would be pretty constant no matter what kind of riding you do...
Let's go back to the beginning where you found red oil in the air cleaner. It sounds like you've over oiled your K&N which creates a restriction. That can cause a buildup of vacuum inside the air cleaner & throttle body. Too much vacuum in the air intake system can cause it to suck oil through the crankcase ventilation system. Try putting the factory air filter back in. Clean or replace the spark plugs and fix that oil screen thing.
Quote from: testpilot on October 07, 2013, 07:03:36 AM
Let's go back to the beginning where you found red oil in the air cleaner. It sounds like you've over oiled your K&N which creates a restriction.
I didn't oil the filter. The filter was oiled, or was supposed to be oiled, properly out of the box. There was actually very little oil there and none in the throttle box and when I checked it at a later date, there was none at all.
Update after roughly 800 miles. I added roughly 8oz to bring the level where it is supposed to be inside the eyehole.
That would be a quart in 3200 miles, which seems like quite a bit. I don't remember seeing you write anything about the pollution/breather stuff. I'm assuming is has something somewhat similar to the 800- which has a crankcase breather line, goes to the air box, among a bunch of other convoluted hoses etc., and there is a "milk bottle", or reservoir/ catch bottle for overage. I replaced all of that w/ a crank breather. I think Troll mentioned it earlier, to check to see if it's all full/ plugged/ etc.???
I'll bet a lot of H-D owners would be happy with a quart in 3200.....An no, the breather system is entirely different on the 1500.
Quote from: Troll on October 13, 2013, 19:01:31 PM
I'll bet a lot of H-D owners would be happy with a quart in 3200.....An no, the breather system is entirely different on the 1500.
I should have clarified.... quite a bit for a Drifter.
And by "similar" I meant similar, at least, in function? Doesn't it have some type of crankcase vent? I'm guessing it does, and if it's plugged up with oil/sludge/carbon/dirt, the crank can't vent and can then perhaps cause oil consumption/leakage?