The only thing that happens when I turn on the key is that the tail/running lights come on and the high beam indicator comes on and stays on and the signals work. I hear no relays, fuel pump, the FI light doesn't come on or the headlights. The key switch seems to be doing it's job, the fuses are good, the bike got parked in the barn after a ride last night, and he battery was at 12.8v when I finally had to walk away tonight (so its on charge). I pulled the fuse box and theres no gremlins growing in the back of it. I was wondering if it was the VDS. Unfortunately I cant test anything because the ECU doesn't work either. Bike was running tip top yesterday, don't get it. I would appreciate any help.
Thanks,
Dave
Have you checked the 15a fuel injection fuse by the battery.
John.
Check the red kill switch on the right handlebar; maybe it isn't working properly.....I've bumped mine getting off after a ride and had to scratch my head for a minute or 2 when going to start it the next time. :)
I suppose you could also try rolling it to make sure you haven't left it in gear..
John.
Thanks for the comments guys, neutral, kill switch, and the 15 A fuse are all good. I did check that fuse first after having read prior issues with that.
I just have no power in anything other than the running (tail) lights, signals, and horn. I'm probably going to have to copy the drawing and probe the lines.
Dave
Sounds like it's in the key switch, jiggle the keys.
Research shows '99s seemed to have a high rate of ign. switch failure......
Just a quick question..
I've looked at the circuit diagram for your bike and it looks as if you have it switched to Park instead of on at the ignition switch..
If so I think you should only have voltage to fuses 5 & 6...Did you check the fuses for voltage with the switch on or did you remove them and only check for resistance..
John.
I used a test probe to test the fuses and voltage.
You have a power commander installed...I forgot that. Now I would be suspicious of that causing the no start...it's happened before.
Ok so you have voltage to all the fuses That means the white and red leads at the ignition switch are connecting that just leaves the supply to the ICU to check..If everything is as you say you should be able to link the starter relay contacts to turn the engine over..If the voltage from the ignition switch goes to the connecter to the ICU then check the connector for a dirty contact, examine the ICU circuit connector for a hairline crack, you can bridge these with a single strand of thin copper wire and solder.
John.
Troll - How so?
John - I'll test that out in the AM and see whats happening.
Thx,
Dave
There have been postings here over the years of people with running or no run problems that have been traced to the P.C. If it won't turn over, that might be something else...The clutch switch connector seems to catch people now and then...The P.C. shouldn't have any effect on that....but now I'm thinking about the side stand interlock switch......
Ok, I'll check it. Also, I ordered an ignition switch just in case. If not today, I'm sure I'll need it at some point.
Dave
My Mom: "Ok, let me think... when the car won't start your supposed to... take off your shoe and hit the battery with it". Worked every time. ;D
Tell Mom Thanks...I just may do it...
Well after pulling and inspecting the fuse panel I decided to put the bike back together and try again from the beginning. All the power was fine until I put on the meter. Wouldn't you know, theres +12V coming out the back of the speedometer cable connections. At least the bike runs and I'll have some spare (future) parts coming soon.
Has anyone heard of this or have any ideas?
Dave
Quote from: Elmo Hayride on July 28, 2013, 15:35:27 PM
Well after pulling and inspecting the fuse panel I decided to put the bike back together and try again from the beginning. All the power was fine until I put on the meter. Wouldn't you know, theres +12V coming out the back of the speedometer cable connections. At least the bike runs and I'll have some spare (future) parts coming soon.
Has anyone heard of this or have any ideas?
Dave
I'm not quite sure what you mean..but..
Meter to dc volts.
connect across the battery..read voltage..write it down..
Leave the red lead on the + battery terminal move the black lead to the frame..do you have the same voltage..If not run a jumper lead from the negative battery terminal to the frame or tighten the battery connections..
John.
Sorry John,
I mean meter as in speedometer assy. When the 3 plugs are connected there is +12V from the speedo connection on the back of the speedometer. If connected to the cable a dead short occurs to ground (cable side).
What year is it...I have a R service manual.. I'll post a meter wiring diagram if it's the correct year
It's a 1999.
So you have 3 lights, a fuel gauge, the efi, oil and temp lights...and the meter illumination...What happens if you leave the speedo cable disconnected?
I recall that when everything was plugged in minus the speedo cable, everything worked fine. Hi/Lo beams, dash lts, signals, and pretty sure neutral indicator.
Sounds like it's time to take the meter assy. apart
I have it on my desk right now. Got most of the wires and bulbs pulled, just can't seem to figure where it splits. The frt metel bezel is bent aroung the top and bottom edges.
Sure wish I could see it. With mechanical speedos, the actual meter is usually crimped shut to prevent tampering with the odometer. The electronic ones come apart pretty easily, but there non volatile ram chip is pretty secure. There seems to be a short to the case that is causing the problem.
Like Troll said, The 99 service manual I have says the Speedo is serviced as a unit. It should not be taken apart for servicing so it is probably going to be a real project to get it apart and back together!
As I am not one to perform these types of surgery without first the consult of people who eagerly engage in dissecting problematic devices here I give you proof of how not easily this will go back together for your review. I may just have to mail this one to Troll for his enjoyment.
Dave
It's the point labeled Lb on the back of the speedo thats shorted...goes to the speedo distance sensor.
Dave
Doesn't look like you will be able to take it apart. Getting a new reed switch might be impossible. The way these things work is actually pretty simple. The mechanical speedo has a part called a drag cup. It's basically a spinning pair of magnets driven by the cable. This works the needle against a hair spring. The reed switch is a glass capsule located near the drag cup. It's got a pair of contacts inside that are normally open. One of the contacts is magnetic, and as the cup turns, it pulls the magnetic reed into contact with the standing contact for an instant. This sends a square wave pulse to the turn signal electronic controller. After enough of these pulses, the turn signals shut off. My suspicion is that if you were to disconnect one of the wires to the reed switch, the no start situation would be corrected, but the turn signals would no longer cancel. You could do this while hunting for a replacement speedo head. Harley had these, and so did a lot of Japanese cars with mechanical speedos...they go bad in various ways. Sounds like somehow yours shorted to the drag cup.
Thanks Troll.
I put the speedo back on and taped off the speedo cable connector and left the cable off. Starts and runs fine but no Hi/Lo, Neutral, or Signals indicators working and also the fuel gague doesn't work.
Dave
was talking to my father in-law (gwychief) and he says he had a similar issue. it ended up being in the clutch. he says that the cable comes loose at the lever and this causes a safety to trip. he just had to push the cable back into seat and tighten it down.
Sure wish I had a '99 circuit diagram...
Troll, I'll scan and post one.
Dave
Here you go.
What happens if you disconnect the light blue wire running from the reed switch and reconnect the speedo cable?
It still blows the fuse. The actual wire injecting the B+ is the Blk/Yel (other wire for distance sensor). From all I see thats supposed to be gound.
If I leave the Lt. Blu and Blk/Yel off I can connect the speedo but still no Hi/Lo, Neutral, or Signals indicators.
Dave
Yeah, the black/yellow is the B+ feed to the whole meter head. The blue wire is signal feed to the t/s controller. You said it blew a fuse...which one?
The first time it blew Tail and Ignition. Now it will just blow Ig.
Dave
It's times like these that it would be great to have circuit breakers instead of fuses.
Circuit breakers sound like a good idea, but even H-D abandoned them in favor of fuses. The breaker takes too long to trip, will reset itself and start the wiring overload all over again. Heat is the problem, and breakers never let the wiring cool down between cycles enough to prevent eventual damage. I have a short circuit tester that uses a rapid reset breaker that sends pulses down the wiring. You use an inductive meter to follow the harness to the point the meter stops reading. Theoretically, that's where the short is.....
Yes a question, You have run an Ohm meter on all the wires in to connector to be sure it is not just a wire with the insulation worn off? 15 years is a lot of vibration, wire touching could have abraded.
Quote from: Troll on July 30, 2013, 07:46:30 AM
Circuit breakers sound like a good idea, but even H-D abandoned them in favor of fuses. The breaker takes too long to trip, will reset itself and start the wiring overload all over again. Heat is the problem, and breakers never let the wiring cool down between cycles enough to prevent eventual damage. I have a short circuit tester that uses a rapid reset breaker that sends pulses down the wiring. You use an inductive meter to follow the harness to the point the meter stops reading. Theoretically, that's where the short is.....
Why is a breaker resetting itself? Shouldn't it have to be manually reset?
Automotive breakers are self resetting.
Quote from: Troll on July 30, 2013, 10:54:47 AM
Automotive breakers are self resetting.
Hmmm. . . I wonder why. Wouldn't that be a safety issue, in risking burning up the electrical system?
@ griz01 - I've been all over the wiring with the ohm meter and visual. The bike was in pieces just weeks ago from an overhaul, paint, power coat, etc...I made real sure to go over the harness before I put it back on the bike. Sure, with the age (1999) anything can happen. I just think that the bike sat so long (has ~10,000 mi.) that things like this will occur for a period of time until it gets to run more often than sit.
@ draconarmy - There is no cable for the clutch on this one, just hydraulic.
@ DC - Breakers would be nice but like Troll said, the wires would cook every time the breaker would blow and I for one wouldn't be so mindful as to worry about the wire if all I had to do was push a button. Adding fuses however, I have to be diligent in my troubleshooting because the box is running low, lol.
Dave
Quote from: Elmo Hayride on July 30, 2013, 13:05:55 PM
@ draconarmy - There is no cable for the clutch on this one, just hydraulic.
There is a SWITCH there at the clutch which will prevent the bike from starting if not connected properly... that is what he's talking about.
On the bars or at the master?
Plugs into the clutch m/cyl. If it's disconnected, the bike won't crank...
Ok, I seen that one. I reconnected the speedo and taped off the Blk/Yel so I can see how fast I'm going anyway. Odd thing too is the oil light stays on prior to start then goes off when started along with no dash Hi/Lo, Neutral, or Signals indicators & the fuel gauge saying it's full with the low fuel light on. Wonder if I should buy the new speedo gauge and see what works after that?
Dave
Oil light BETTER go off when the engine starts.....Sounds like some kind of short in the meter's P.C. board. The black/white wire is supposed to be the ground....
Quote from: Troll on July 30, 2013, 19:24:11 PM
Oil light BETTER go off when the engine starts.....Sounds like some kind of short in the meter's P.C. board. The black/white wire is supposed to be the ground....
Isn't the BLK/YEL is the ground? Have you tested the Distance sensor? if bad it your need to replace the entire head but it sure seems that is where the problem is. You said that your had the bike apart. There is a Caution in the Shop Manual that Speedo head must be stored face up, "stored upside down or sideways for any length of time it will malfunction"
Oil light doe's go out after starting. You're correct Gritz01, "If the meter is left upside down or sideways for any length of time, it will malfunction". It was stored face up all winter, just got buggy the other day.Dave
According to the color coded wiring diagram, the black/white wire goes to ground, the black/yellow wire is power feed.
I must be doing something wrong, the BLK/YEL wire, when I trace it leads to the Neg side of the battery. That should be ground? Looking at the colors of the wires on the speedo head; I do not even see BLK/WHT? My 99 manual does not list any BLK/WHT wires in the diagram? I see 6 wires on the Speedo head, Black & Yellow, Light Blue, Red & Black, Brown & Black, Red & Blue, and White & Yellow. Am I lost here?
Somebody posted a scan of the wiring diagram for the meter. The wire colors are, apparently not correct...that could make the trouble shooting more interesting.
I can't seem to post the kaw drawings. I try again later.
Dave
OK I am confusing myself so I am going to ask, , Speedo connector pulled apart; If you hook up a DVOM, 1 Lead on the BLK/YEL wire in connector on the bike side, other lead to BAT Ground, Key on , you have no voltage. Correct?
Here's the wiring diagram that was posted, stitched together..now that I look again, maybe it is black and yellow....
....so, I've been reading this thread with great interest since it is dealing with the same problem I've been fighting on my '99 1500. The main difference is that I cannot determine if my ecu is actually the problem. I did find the resistor on my aftermarket ignition switch was broken. I was very excited to find this because I hoped that it was the root cause. ......not. Is there a way for a layman such as myself to test the ecu to find out if it is even working?
Just for background, I was trying to track down what I thought was a problem with the down sensor and foolishly jumped the power feed to the sensor to the signal wire to the ecu. After subsequently reading the manual (...I know, reading should come before doing. D'oh!) I realized that circuit is only supposed to have 4.4v and I fed it 12V. I thought I had fried the ecu and I may have. I found one online for a '00 Nomad. I was a 1071 and the '99 is supposed to be a 1064. Do I need to bite the bullet and pay for a new 1064 or is there a chance that the problem is elsewhere? I've checked all the fuses and they are all intact. The purchase price for a new ecu is a stretch for me right now, let alone having to pay for diagnostic labor so if I can solve it with a little help I would like to try. Not to mention the fact that my wife keeps reminding me how nice the weather has been lately and how we can't go riding.....anybody got any suggestions for specifically where I can start over?
That resistor issue cost me a new fuel pump. Didn't need it, ordered it, and put it in...still no joy. The resistor is VERY important. It has to be right or the built in anti theft system won't let the pump turn on. I would look at thunder manufacturing's web site and see if the resistor's impedance is listed. I installed a new factory ign. switch, and now use my thunder switch to control the amp for my stereo.
Quote from: water buffalo on August 04, 2013, 14:40:28 PM
Is there a way for a layman such as myself to test the ecu to find out if it is even working?
The ECU does a self diagnosis...
Always look over in the mods/tips section of the web site to see if there is anything relative to your situation...
Here's the ECU info
http://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/ECUFaultCodes.html (http://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/ECUFaultCodes.html)
Just re-read my post. Just to clarify, I did replace the resistor according to Jo-Bear's instructions. My understanding is that the wire with the resistor is the one that supplies power to the ecu. The main problem is that the wiring diagram shows the ecu seems to get power from several different circuits depending on what sensor it's monitoring. Makes it difficult to track down just where the problem is. I also don't know how to tell where to look since I have no way to look at the self-diagnostic signals without the FI light. I'm real close to having to take it to a shop. A slight blow to my ego, but more importantly, to my wallet.
Check ALL the fuses, including the one hidden in the white box near the battery.