Iam with troll on this one, i like a carb. simply because all of todays production bikes ar starved by the amarican federal regs. one has mor cheeper options with a carb. u can richen em with jets instead of a power commander. as we all know how important fuel metering can be. also, a shaft driven bike is a must for the long hauls. on the other hand, the handeling of the 800 is exceptional due to weight en such. great bike fer the short hauls. now the subject of fuel friendlyness, can anybody tell me why these bikes ar so hard on the mileage. my moto guzzi has dam near twice the motor of the 800 an gets 55mpg loaded or lite. the 800s pushen 44, being a master tinkerer, (war departments words) i have since modifyed my 800 of whitch ill talk mor about in the mods section, keep in mind iam only seeking fuel friendlyness, not speed or any thing like that. bigger valve heads, a change in intake desing coupeled with a conventional slide 38mm miky carb. instead of a cv carb.(constant vacume). and ofcourse increaseing the plumbing size on the aft end.(exhaust). LET IT BREATH. believe me, alot of expence, blood sweat an tears not ta menthion the aggravation. all for 10 mor miles to the gallon. my 1500s gona be all cosmetic, f,,, the mileage.
I will take FI over carbs all day long. I've not had to touch the settings on my FI box in 10 years, travelling from coast to coast. When I was looking for a new bike, I was looking specifically for one with FI. Never owned a FI'd bike before this Drifter and was tired of dealing with carbs.
The problem with injection is simple. The settings are emission compliant and hard programmed in. The EFI system is ONLY there for emission purposes. Carbs are more flexible, and that's why they are becoming extinct. We have 3 Suzuki efi 250s in out rider ed fleet, and some of the advantages are obvious. The problem arises when you are looking for a specific parameter that can be improved. The Suzukis all have a snatchy throttle response just off idle, and sometimes, when it's really hot out, their idle speeds will vary...a lot! I like the way my Drifter runs, but the last trip I took gave me fuel mileage down to as low as 33 mpg, and as high as 46...I really didn't appreciate stopping at 110 miles to fill up. Once I got the cv carb on my TourGlide set up the way I wanted to, I didn't touch it for over 50,000 miles, and If I hadn't sold the bike at that point, I probably wouldn't have fiddled with it yet. All these add-on fuel tuner boxes are technically illegal, but the authorities don't check motorcycle emissions, except for noise...Hell, they can't even decide on a testing standard for cars. Way back when, with the advent of OBD2 (1995), ALL cars and trucks would have to meet IM240 emission standards...testing turned out to be a joke, and the whole thing just kinda faded away most places in the country. NEVER believe you won't have to be compliant, someday...these things don't die, they just hibernate for a while and they come back to getcha, like a zombie!
We will have to disagree on this subject. After many years of balancing, rejetting, adjusting, tinkering, with carbs, I've had enough. Get the things perfect today, a change in the weather makes it run like crap tomorrow. FI can be mapped and tweaked for performance as well as for economy. I like not having to worry about poor performance or worse when going from the beach to the mtns. I like being able to turn a few POTS to adjust for performance or fuel economy. I heard much the same arguments over electronic ignition... I installed one on my 78 Harley and got a lot of kickback from club mates.
I'm not anti-carb - and FI is still far from perfect... but back in 2002 I refused to buy another carb'd harley. I had a list of tech I wanted on my new bike... the drifter delivered then and still delivers.
I still like to tinker with em... I just don't want to be FORCED to have to!!! <LOL>
I think I'll split this off the original post. Good conversation on carb vs FI...
Control boxes aren't illegal and likely never will be, in my opinion. The fact they can be used to IMPROVE emission readings will likely prevent anything like that from happening, IMHO. And since they are easily remapped, they can be set to respond to different.... environments... like a trip to the emissions checking station should that be necessary!
What may become illegal... heading that way... are aftermarket pipes and air boxes, especially the former. Which is, of course, one of the primary reasons for add-on FI boxes. We need to work to ensure that doesn't happen. And, I suppose, carbs could be prohibited on new bikes at some point. Don't want that to happen either!
The proper metering of fuel under changing conditions can be far better handled by a dynamic (computer controlled) electronic device that by a static/mechanical device like a carb. And, FI has improved tremendously over the past few years. If pure power is what you want, carbs have historically been the preferred option.
With the new add-on boxes showing up, and with Harley converting, FI is becoming more and more adjustable - which has or soon will practically eliminate any reason to want a carb'd bike, except on vintage bikes.
If two identical bikes were available, one with carbs, one with FI, I'd go for the FI'ed bike. But otherwise it wouldn't be the sole deciding factor. I can deal with a carb if I have to... still got the tools!
This is one of those debates that's been going on since FI was invented. I can remember having similar discussions when I ran muscle cars... I was on the carb side back then.
Here's a link that covers the history pretty well. Its about cars, but holds true for bikes as well...
http://news.carjunky.com/fuel-injection-versus-carburetors-abc496.shtml (http://news.carjunky.com/fuel-injection-versus-carburetors-abc496.shtml)
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/carburetor_vs_injection/index.html (http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/carburetor_vs_injection/index.html)
I started working on EFI stuff back in '70 when the Bosch Jetronic d and later l models started to show up. They were open loop systems, just like on the Drifter. They had a potentiometer mounted on the EFI controller that allowed as much as a 3% change in fuel mixture, over the entire rpm range. Starting in 1973, emissions requirements got pretty heavy and made that knob disappear. As the emission nazis got more heavy handed, lots of things changed. I remember the dual carb Peugeot 504s suddenly having a rash of complaints because the choke would push itself back in after the engine warmed up. (pretty clever, actually...the choke was connected to a servo motor that would be energized when the coolant temp got to like 120 deg, and it would pull the cable back). I have no major gripe with the system, other than it's lack of adjustability. Can't change the air/fuel ratio, or even the timing...I LOVE electronic ign, since you don't have to mess with resetting it regularly, but the compromise A/F ratio that the manuafcturer has set up is like the monolith from 2001 space Odyssey! I downloaded a map from DynoJet that explains a few things...The greyed out portion of the map is non adjustable. I wrote to them and to another maker, and they told me that their systems can only add fuel to the existing map....not exactly what I'm looking for...Most of my riding is at or below 3,000 rpm, which means that nothing would be changed except for a $400 hole in my wallet
True enough on Drifters. The drifter EFI doesn't have the sensors many of the other systems use. The add-on boxes made for our bikes are built to handle air box and pipe mods... and work with the onboard EFI... this means adding fuel. I'd love to be able to change out the oem EFI with an aftermarket setup that would provide more sensors and increased adjustment potential. Never looked into this possibility in the past... I don't race, my bike has plenty of power for me, and my fuel mileage is satisfactory, so...
Guys,
Thank you all for the imput.
I went for the 1500....I just loved the idea of the bigger motor...and no chain....I know they both are beautiful bikes....I just think the 1500 fits me better...
First thing to do.....Put white wall tires...Yep....and....Uppss Big bucks......Thank God I'm not married!
Hahaha
since there is no chain to throw stuff on the tires.....