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Posted by lumper
- May 08, 2011, 19:25:43 PMis that the plug under he control and lever or you mean the actual contact point for the clutch?
One last question for tonight.
Is it possible that even though the battery has enough cca (123) to run my horns and lights that it just doesn't have enough to engage the cylinoid so it wont even start the starter?
And with that is there still a chance that a new fully charged battery might just fire it up?
Or is that a pipe dream at this point do you think?
Thanks guys, I really appreciate your time and help on this, tomorrow I am going to run through some tests but I feel like without a good battery it might be a waste of time.
I can grab a charger from my mom tomorrow and leave the battery on it and see if it will take a charge or not.
Lump
Posted by Troll
- May 08, 2011, 19:08:28 PMCheck to be sure the plug on the clutch lever is all the way in and tight. all the current for the starter relay has to pass this switch.
When I got mine, the wires were just slightly pulled out and it wouldn't turn over (crank) even with a fully charged battery. Neutral light was on, side stand up or down, makes no difference, if this bugger isn't making contact.
Posted by lumper
- May 08, 2011, 18:36:12 PMSorry Chief we posted at the same time I missed that long diagnostic, thanks alot.
I will hit it again tomorrow when have light again.
Also you said, You will need to disconnect and test each switch one by one...
How do I test them ?
locate them and disconnect them and inspect ? what else can I do to test them?
To clarify from before, I said side cover, I meant the right side air cover I guess it is called, the ports that the throttle control are on the top and then in the middle are two cylinders with lines running to them and they are wired with plugs on the bottom, these seem to click when I hit the start button, I can touch them and feel it.
I am going to go through all the tests you gave me though and see whats up, I cant get a new battery until Weds or Thursday so I wont be able to see if that is the problem.
It seems more unlikely that it is a battery now though and more likely a relay or switch or short somewhere possibly I guess.
Lump
Posted by lumper
- May 08, 2011, 18:15:16 PMWell when I get my ear really close and stretch my ape like arms across the bike to start it the click I hear made me take the right side cover off to look and see what was in there, but it definitely seems up high and center not out front on the bottom, definitely dont think anything is getting to the starter though.
I brought home a tester from my moms just now but I really have no idea how to use it, it is a multi tester ac/dc/volts and ohms, I thought maybe I could test the cylinoid or starter if I could get to the wires.
I read somewhere online when someone else was having this exact issue they ran a bypass direct from the battery to the starter to make sure it wasnt the starter and I was wondering if I should try bypassing anything like the kickstand sensor or anything.
So the relay is under the right side cover?
I had it off and saw two valve looking things, lol sorry, I assumed they had something to do with the fuel system.
What should I do with the relay to determine if it is the problem?
bypass it, replace it, ?
Thanks again for all your help too, I really appreciate it, I just want to ride.
Lump
Posted by chief
- May 08, 2011, 16:33:14 PMWell you know the starter motor is in the front of the bike, the starter relay is under the right side covers... either could sound like its coming from under the tank...
Posted by lumper
- May 08, 2011, 16:15:15 PMok, here's what I know and I still cant start the bike.
When I press the ignition I can hear a clicking up under the tank.
Its not coming from the starter if the starter is in the front behind the radiator on the bottom.
I dont know if I should take the tank off and look up in there or what is up there, but it sounds like a relay clicking to me.
the battery although it showed 120 cca it has a charge and sparks up good, lol everything comes on an my air horns work so it seems like between the battery and the starter something is wrong or shorted out.
I dont have a manual and I have never had the tank off so I dont know what is up under there or if there is anything I can do in there.
Or maybe it could be a sensor that is interrupting the power, I looked at the bike down sensor in the battery compartment, and I looked for the kickstand sensor and I cant see anything that looks wrong.
Now, I am kind of helpless until I can either get a manual or take it to a shop and have it looked at but I cant afford to do that so it wont be anytime soon, in the meantime I am open to your suggestions and ideas to trouble shoot to see if it is something I can locate and fix.
I am planning on going to Laconia bike week in a month so I have til then to fix it, lol, ugh ... help
Thanks for all the help already, I really do appreciate it, without you guys I have no contact with anyone that knows anything about motorcycles, my friends that do aren't around here and there the ones I cant get a hold of anyway, there out riding.
Lump
Posted by chief
- May 08, 2011, 15:41:58 PMYou have a tender on that battery? I'd invest in a manual. I use the Clymer's in conjunction with the Kaw manual.
First, since you have removed all the extra stuff on the battery terminals, see if it will take a charge or start using the auto. Make sure the terminals are very clean. If that doesn't work then...
Based upon what you've stated... you get all the power stuff and actually hear the starter relay clicking... that eliminates a lot of wiring, sensor and connector problems. It eliminates the main fuse as the problem as well.
Personally, I'd replace the battery with one recommended for the Drifter. I like to start with a known good fully charged battery.
Then I'd look at the starter and starter relay:
1) Check the starter cable for loose or dirty connectors.
2) Check the starter relay for loose or dirty connectors.
3) Check the starter relay switch:
a) turn on the ignition and hit the start button.
b) if the starter clicks, go to STARTER CLICKS:
c) if starter does NOT click... go to STARTER DOES NOT CLICK
STARTER CLICKS:
1) Remove the starter
2) using a known good, fully charged battery and cables
(ensure you use cables that can handle the load) apply voltage to the starter. It should run.
a) does run: check the starter cables. If they are good, then you will need to check the starter relay.
b) does NOT run: you have a bad starter and it will need to be repaired.
STARTER DOES NOT CLICK:
You will need to disconnect and test each switch one by one...
1) Main switch
2) Start switch
3) Engine stop switch
4) Clutch switch
5) Neutral switch
6) if all above ok.. inspect the starter CIRCUIT relay. this part of the junction box.
a) Remove junction box
b) connect ohmmeter : + to terminal 13; - to terminal 11 = reading should be infinity.
c) connect ohmmeter : + to 12; - to 11 = NOT infinity.
d) if ok Starter Circuit is ok, check starter relay .
e) if readings are off... replace the junction box (you cannot buy a starter circuit relay separately).
1) Remove the relay
2) Connect known good fully charged 12v batt to the + and - terminals of the relay.
3) Connect an ohmmeter across the starter relay terminals and check for continuity. Should show positive continuity with batt attached. Should show no continuity with the battery is disconnected.
4) If no continuity with battery attached, or if you see continuity with the battery disconnected, you have a bad relay.
Posted by griz01
- May 08, 2011, 15:30:43 PMYou Could test the starter in place, Since you have the battery disconnected already; Disconnect the lead on the starter; hook up the jumper positive lead. Be certain jumper lead touches only the threaded portion of the starter!! Then hook the negative jumper lead to a jumper battery; Hook up the Positive to the jumper battery, and finally touch the negative jumper lead to a ground on the frame. If you are sure the negative cable is good use it. There will be some sparks as you connect keep as far away from the battery as possible . If the starter is good it will crank.
Past this we will need a DVOM, to trouble shoot more.
Just a side note, On my bike when you remove the battery hold down, the tip over switch falls off. Your switch is in place correct? If not there is no chance in will run, don't ask how I found this out 
Posted by VN1500
- May 08, 2011, 15:20:54 PMLump,
Is there anyway you can get a good battery check done? With a DVOM you should get at least high 12 volt reading,better yet 13+ just across the terminals. A hydrometer check gives more idea of the depth of battery strength.
The more you talk the more it sounds like starter relay. Hard to say for sure, not being hands on!
Ron
Posted by lumper
- May 08, 2011, 14:34:10 PMok, well it wont start with a jump from a car or truck that is not running.
The clicking seems like it is coming from under the tank or between the heads, not the starter.
I am getting kinda discouraged here, I guess thats par for the course though so I am trying to think positive.
Without a manual there isnt a lot can check, I mean I can follow the wiring around and look for breaks, splits, burns, shorts, etc.. but I haven't seen anything like that yet.
I temporarily disconnected the air horn relay switch from the battery and the tender plug so it is just the batter connected to its two main terminals.
What would you recommend I look at or try next?
Lump
Posted by chief
- May 08, 2011, 14:19:39 PMIf it is only the battery, it will start with a jump... remember DO NOT START THE CAR! You may have to let the bike battery charge for a minute or two.
Bad batteries do weird things.
Posted by lumper
- May 08, 2011, 14:16:08 PMThanks for the info, I am going to try and eliminate the battery as the culprit or identify it as the case may be and let you know.
Lump
Posted by lumper
- May 08, 2011, 14:14:16 PMOk, thanks
really I had no idea yet which battery to go with, I just saw the claim that it was 450 cca and thought, wow thats pretty awesome if I am going to add more accessories, but I dont have the money until later this week and I will most likely get something local.
I found a 230 cca at autozone for 99.00 but I am going to look more carefully and learn more about what makes a good battery for my bike before I buy anything.
I am going out now to try and jump it after tapping the starter, wish me luck, I hope it starts but if not I really hope this is only a battery.
Nothing else makes much sense since it was fine when I shut it off and I cant see any signs of melting wires, odd things with the electrical, etc..
I will let you know if this works though.
Lump
Posted by chief
- May 08, 2011, 14:10:06 PMLeft off the battery info...
http://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/drifterparts.html
If the engine will not "crank" - crank means engine turns over there are a few things which might be wrong...
1) blown main fuse - but you have power, so that isn't it.
2) Discharged battery -
3) Defective starter, starter relay. You hear a click, so I'd rule out #2 before proceeding.
There are more serious engine problems which might be the cause, but you need to eliminate these first.
Posted by griz01
- May 08, 2011, 13:12:09 PMLumper
Be careful of that battery for 2 reasons, first it is for the BUBF series, that battery is longer and narrower than the Drifter's. secondly it is a GEL Cell type; The Gel Cell excels in slow discharge rates and slightly higher ambient operating temperatures. The big issue with Gel Batteries that must be addressed is the CHARGE PROFILE. The battery charger being used to recharge the battery has to be designed or adjustable for Gel Cell Batteries. If you are using an motorcycle alternator to recharge a true Gel Cell a special regulator must be installed. A slower charge rate is necessary. Gel Cell Batteries must be recharged correctly or the battery will suffer premature failure