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Posted by gwilki
- June 03, 2021, 09:07:46 AMI apologize JT for my bad math skills. The rear wheel has 1.375oz/39grams on it, not 2.375oz.
Posted by tj
- June 03, 2021, 07:10:11 AMQuote from: gwilki on June 02, 2021, 19:57:22 PMA few things come to mind...After a ride today, I started to think that maybe the issue is coming from the rear tire/wheel. TJ described my issue as like horse bucking. That's a better description that a handlebar vibration.
Since my last post, I've found the following:
The front tire is a Shinko SR777 bias ply. The front wheel has 1/2 oz of weight on it.
I have yet to measure the run out on the front wheel.The rear tire is a Dunlop Cruise Max bias ply. The rear wheel has 2 3/8 oz of weight on it. The rear wheel is out by about .030" axial, well within the spec. This measurement is with the wheel on the bike. I have yet to measure the radial. I will likely need to remove the wheel to get a radial run out measurement.
One thing that I am going to take up with Dunlop is that they say that the Cruise Max is not a match for my bike. The size is right, so I want to find out why they say that.
Having almost 70 grams of weight on the rear wheel IMHO is a lot of weight. If the "balance dot" is opposite the valve stem and the wheel weights are 180 away from the stem (assuming the weights are in the same spot)...then there is not much else you can do about it.
Your tires being mismatched (front to rear) will not help the situation. Some say you can mismatch tires with no ill effects. IIRC a few Ducatis came from the factory with mismatched tires...I don't think it's a good idea here and it may be compounding your issues.
If the manufacturer doesn't list the cruisemax as a match for the bike...construction and behavior may be different enough to not be a "match" (belted bias ply vs bias ply etc).
Too many things are not quite right with that rear tire...
Posted by gwilki
- June 02, 2021, 19:57:22 PMAfter a ride today, I started to think that maybe the issue is coming from the rear tire/wheel. TJ described my issue as like horse bucking. That's a better description that a handlebar vibration.
Since my last post, I've found the following:
The front tire is a Shinko SR777 bias ply. The front wheel has 1/2 oz of weight on it.
I have yet to measure the run out on the front wheel.
The rear tire is a Dunlop Cruise Max bias ply. The rear wheel has 2 3/8 oz of weight on it. The rear wheel is out by about .030" axial, well within the spec. This measurement is with the wheel on the bike. I have yet to measure the radial. I will likely need to remove the wheel to get a radial run out measurement.
One thing that I am going to take up with Dunlop is that they say that the Cruise Max is not a match for my bike. The size is right, so I want to find out why they say that.
Posted by gwilki
- June 01, 2021, 15:40:39 PMTires are Shinko. I have dial gauges so I can check the run out. I have a large wood turning lathe that I can mount the wheels on and check them that way.
I'll check how much weight is on each wheel and report back.
Tks, TJ
Posted by tj
- June 01, 2021, 14:27:12 PMQuote from: gwilki on June 01, 2021, 14:05:57 PM26-65 INCH/lbs from FSM.Do you bother to torque them? I'm assuming that, since you use an open end wrench, that you do not.
Posted by tj
- June 01, 2021, 14:24:08 PMQuote from: gwilki on June 01, 2021, 11:51:34 AMI would start here.All advice is welcome.
Check both wheels for runout.
From the FSM - With tires installed, service limits are 2mm axial (side to side) and 1.5mm radial (up and down). Standard is 0.8mm both axial and radial.
Check how much weight is on the wheel.
There is a note in the FSM. More than 90grams should not be used...I think that's about 3oz. Whenever I balance a tire (static), I start to get concerned around 2oz...especially if it's on the front.
What kind of tire is it?
I've had bad luck with the Michelin commanders. My issues showed up at 60-80km/h. I would have sworn the front wheel was the problem. Turns out the rear was out of round...sometimes you just can't tell.
Posted by gwilki
- June 01, 2021, 14:05:57 PMDo you bother to torque them? I'm assuming that, since you use an open end wrench, that you do not.
Posted by Tim
- June 01, 2021, 13:57:53 PM1/4" wrench works well to tighten the spokes. 
Posted by gwilki
- June 01, 2021, 13:26:54 PMKaw Canada mentioned the same thing, Tim. I'm going to at least do the ping test later today. Thank you.
Posted by Tim
- June 01, 2021, 12:44:50 PMI just got new tires and was riding yesterday when I got a flat rear. Took it home and it turns out I hit a nail and the tube is bad. While I was looking at everything on the stand I checked the spokes too - many lose ones! I used to do the sound test (tap each one with a wrench and if it made a ping it was good) but far better to tighten each one to know for sure.
I wonder if your spokes are loose.
Posted by gwilki
- June 01, 2021, 11:51:34 AMTks for that, Mittico. All advice is welcome.
Posted by mittico68
- June 01, 2021, 10:35:43 AMQuote from: gwilki on June 01, 2021, 09:34:10 AMThe seller just got back to me. The tires have fewer than 1000 km on them and are 2 years old. Back to the drawing board.
That doesn't mean a lot, as even a 2years old tire can be an issue: it all depends on weather it's been sitting or not, for all that time...
Just my 2 cents.
Posted by gwilki
- June 01, 2021, 09:34:10 AMTks, Troll. I am now leaning to tires being the problem. I spoke to two dealers and Kaw Canada today, and confirmed that there is no nitrogen in the front shocks.
I explained the symptoms to one of the dealer techs and he doubted that springs and oil were the issue, but agreed that it could not hurt to change them out if only for my peace of mind. Kaw Canada said that it could be an out of round wheel. The dealer tech, like you, leaned to tires. I am not sure, but I'm betting that these are the original tires on this bike. It only has about 10,000km/6000miles on it, but if I am right, they are 22 years old.
Edit: Oh well, back to the drawing board. The seller just got back to me. The tires have fewer than 1000 km on them and are 2 years old. Back to the drawing board.
Posted by Troll
- June 01, 2021, 08:07:37 AMWhat kind/age are the tires? I had a pair of Michelin Commander IIs that had very hard lap seams, and the bouncy feeling was quite evident, especially around town. I'm running Shinkos right now, and even though they aren't as long lasting as the Michelins, they give a better ride and are quite confidence inspiring.
the rear seems to only last about 10,000 miles, the front might go nearer 20,000. Just about the same as the much more expensive Metzelers I used to run.
Posted by gwilki
- May 31, 2021, 20:48:06 PMThanks, Troll. Why am I not surprised? I had complained about the high bill for no results on Friday, and the service agent said that she would take it up with the service manager and the technician. She called me today to say that they decided that it could be fork oil, fork springs, rear tire (They checked the front one.) or low nitrogen. I asked her if she was sure that they mentioned low nitrogen and she assured me that they had. I told her that I had never heard of a Drifter having nitrogen in the shocks.
They have offered me a free hour's assessment to determine what may be wrong. If I go ahead with that, and I don't believe right now that I will, it is scheduled for June 23.
Unfortunately, they are the only Kawasaki dealership in the city.
In 1999, I bought a new Drifter from them and did my own service, what there was of it, for 5 years. Then I sold it - stupid.
So, now I bought this 1999 Drifter with 9500km on it. Looks like new, but is 22 years old. It seems to have been maintained well, but there is this problem. When riding up to about 80kph/50mph, all is well. When riding over 100kph/62mph, all is well. In between those speeds, there is a "bouncing". I wish that I could explain it better. I thought that it could be wheel balance and that's why I took it to the dealer. Clearly, I was wrong. I should have known, as it is not really the kind of vibration that wheel balance causes. It really is more of a bouncing. That said, it's not like the forks are compressing and rebounding, either. I don't imagine that this is much help to you, but it's all that I can come up with.
So, I have ordered the progressive springs and have curb side service for a gallon of automatic transmission fluid. I read here that is a good way to go. When the springs arrive, I'll pull the forks, drain them and use some new oil to flush them a couple of times before filling them and replacing everything.
If anything that I've said here gives you other ideas, I'll gladly listen. I figure that it can't hurt to do the oil and springs.