2003 1500 Drifter with electrical gremlins...ECM is suspect.

[drifter-paul]

Maybe ease back Renxerox , as Mitico68 suggests .

I've had a shit time de-rusting my tank and made a mistake I would not normally make , because I was trying to hurry the process .

- Had a few long days and am tired, but will to read the post stream again tomorrow .

I see two options but want to consider the history again, in case I make an inane comment that has already been covered .

Chill, collectively we solve it in the end .

[mittico68]

It's very frustrating to face problems that seem like havin' no way out, while you'd like to jump on your scoot and just go riding...
Keep on tryin'!

[ranxerox]

I'm ready to tap out....

I purchased a new ECM, everything works now...pump, etc.  EXCEPT for the starter.  Before putting the ECM on, the starter rolled without a problem.

I'm thinking of stripping it down and going over every connection with a wire-brush.  I just can't think of anything else.

I'm stumped....

[ranxerox]

drifter-paul Ignition is good.  I cleaned all the contacts and reassembled it. It works fine.

Interesting thing happened while I was checking my ignition.  I had purchased another Denso relay for the fuel pump, I installed it and the fuel pump ran, then stopped. Normal.  I turned over the motor, and the pump did not come back on.  I checked the voltage coming from the relay and it was around 1.4-1.7 volts.  Weird.

[ranxerox]

@drifter-paul
Nothing but the key on the ignition, never had more than 1, but I'll test it.

I'll pull the ignition and test it and see.

Thanks!!

[drifter-paul]

Unless I've missed something, you do not appear to have discounted the ignition key yet ?

I'd use "Ron Ayers Kawasaki Parts" to find what other VN1500 have that switch and ask an owner to borrow his/her one . The ignition has White, grey, blue and red wires running up to a connector in the V of the frame tubes towards the front and under the tank. With small hands , you could get away with someone else just undoing the rear tank bolt that the seat slots into, and lifting up the arse end of the tank to get access to the lower left front.

My fuel pump would kick in with the twist of the Ignition key, but thumbing the starter would overload the connection when the starter spun up .

Cheaper than an ECU .

Do you have a heap of keys hanging off your Ignition key ?

Just a thought

[ranxerox]

@Troll
I ran the pump directly. It works.  I ran a ground to the proper circuit, and nothing. The relay still works, but the signal isn't getting to the pump. ECM is toast, I believe, unless I'm missing something.

I'll look for one on eFlay.

Thank you all.

[Troll]

Just in case you (and others) were wondering, the standard for computer controlled devices is for the computer to ground the component, not supply power. The quad driver transistor cannot handle the heavy electrical load of B+ but the ground is a very low amperage load, and easily tolerated.

[ranxerox]

Gotcha.

[Troll]

Just be sure to ground the correct side, or you will blow the fuel pump fuse. It's a two wire plug, under the speedo nacelle.

[ranxerox]

@Troll. I'll do that. Sorry about the Newbish questions, but I've been chasing this damned thing for a few months and I don't seem to have an affinity for electronics.

[Troll]

Just put a ground lead to the ground side of the pump and see if it starts. If everything else is ok, and the starter turns, the only thing missing would be fuel pressure.

[ranxerox]

Hey Troll, thanks for the intel. Would replacing the ignition switch fix that problem? Or, cleaning the contacts?

If the voltage is low on that 31 pin, would it be part of the low voltage issue on the others?

If you don't know, I still really appreciate your input.

Ken

[Troll]

The pump is grounded through the ECM. The ECM will ground the pump if it sees a low voltage signal on the pin listed as unused, 29, as I remember. You can bypass this by simply running the ground wire from the pump to an appropriate grounding point, and the pump will run. The big difference is that the 2 second prime function will no longer work, but the pump will run constantly, as it normally does when the engine is running. The missing voltage signal from the ign. switch is supposed to be an anti-theft device. Jumping the ign switch to power will not supply this signal to the ECM. This is hard won information. I had to find this out when the aftermarket (previous owner) ign switch inline resistor failed and left me walking.

[ranxerox]

Hi, I appreciate your replies.

Clutch, kickstand and engine kill switch all check out with continuity.

Female pins are tight and intact.

Starter works now that the relay/solenoid has been replace.

Fuel pump has shut off and stayed off, although the relay works.  I will be pulling it and checking it directly.

Ignition switch provides power to all locations I've checked.  I am open to hearing tests I don't about, as learning is why I'm here.

I did check the ECU with the needle test probes and per the shop manuals ECU test procedure, it isn't showing the correct voltage for the 31 connection.  I don't wanna buy a new ECU, but it's looking that way.  Again, I come here to learn, so if anyone has had this issue, lay it on me.

[Bucko]

I had a significant problem (a long time ago) on my 01 with female ECU connector pins breaking apart and not making good contact with the ECU pins.   I eventually had to replace every female 'pin' in both ECU connectors. 

[ranxerox]

Testing the ECU per the shop manual.

Connection 31 is supposed to show 12.5 V or more with the key ON; it shows only 1.4-1.5 V.
Connections 8, 16, 21, 24, and 32 show continuity per the shop manual.

The DFI Fuse and Main Relay are fully functional, and the ignition fuse is good. The starter has been working consistently after the relay was replaced.
I'm now sure the ECU's toast unless someone has had a different experience.

[53Indian]

Simple checks:

Try the clutch switch, I've had them disintegrate.

Try the side stand switch, can be problematic, I usually bypass them.

Try the engine kill switch, I've known these come apart inside but look fine outside.

ECU's are bloody expensive, £300+ used in the UK, but I've never had one go.
Luckily, I've got two bikes so I can swap bits around - anyone nearby you? 

[drifter-paul]

Hey Ranxerox ,

If buying a new ignition switch , beware Non OEM - refer my post of 17th Aug '24

"
"Warning - Non OEM Ignition switch "

[Troll]

Ecm has nothing to do with the starter. I would be suspecting the ign. switch.

[ranxerox]

Here are the particulars.

• Around 3-4 months ago, I noticed that after sitting for a week or so, the starter was reluctant to turn over. I would press the starter button, hold it for 15-20 seconds, and then the starter would crank normally, starting the bike.
• After a few times with this happening, the starter simply wouldn't engage; press the starter button, 1-click, and nothing.
• However, a heavy screwdriver across the starter relay/solenoid leads (the heavy cables that run to the starter) would get me immediate engagement.
• I do not claim my batteries are in excellent; my 2 load testers do. One is a physical load tester with the heavy coils that get super hot and one is a digital load tester. The results are the same on both load testers. Excellent health.
• With the wire-tap (to my tach) removed, the starter worked, then it didn't. I deleted the mechanical connectors and soldered the tap to the headlight wire as it was already compromised and doesn't come into play until after the starter engages. Truth be told, it had worked for more than a decade without issue.
• Resistance before and after the tap is identical regardless of the situation - key-on, key-off, headlight on, headlight off. Same.
• I tested the starter relay per the shop manual. It checked out, but I replaced it (the one with the 30 amp main fuse) as it was an inexpensive part and I thought the older one might be kicking up abnormal resistance.
• It seemed to fix the issue as the starter cranked over. So, I reassembled everything hoping to get out on the road.
• I shut down the motorcycle. reassembled it and when I turned the key, the fuel pump did not engage, but the starter did.
• Square one, disassembly.
• I tested the tip-over sensor per the shop manual. It checked out.
• I tested the fuel pump relay per the shop manual, and it functions.
• I tested the fuel pump per the shop manual, and by connecting it directly to the battery. The pump and its systems are in working order.
• I reconnected all the relays and everything went back to the beginning.
• The starter wouldn't crank over. Out of curiosity, I held it down for a bit and the starter engaged and the bike ran.
• I did look over the JB, no corrosion is visible.
• I rechecked all the visible wires and they are fine. No bare spots, frays or corrosion.
• One last thing, I have tried to get the ECM to go into self-diagnostic mode.  The LED is functional, but nothing happens.  No flashing lights, nothing.

I am wondering if it isn't the ECU that's going bad, but I want to be sure as they're not thick on the ground nor are they inexpensive.