oil and temp warning lights on together and don't go out when engine runs

greenbarn · January 20, 2017, 19:36:28 PM

Absolutely, KW. Book your room, and hopefully you can make it.

CDNRatMan · January 20, 2017, 08:19:18 AM

kw, rest assured that I will take care of you, and because you are a Sr. I'll get you a room close to an exit and the outhouse.....

kw-retrorider · January 20, 2017, 04:43:44 AM

Greenbarn....the Northern Drifter Rendezvous may be just the thing. Would be good to see you guys again and be my chance to meet "RATMAN"....na na na na na na na na

This may not be the optimum year though...still fooling with family estate and executor issues, but I will give it some thought and perhaps book the room, despite a 50% chance of canceling. That said, things may finalize at this end and a trip would be good. Looked it up and it's only 12 hours from here...about 100 miles more than the trip to the smokey mountains...so very doable and the chance to give Ratman his due.

Thanks again guys....took the 800 to work yesterday...about 70 miles round trip...all good.

CDNRatMan · January 18, 2017, 21:02:56 PM

you and 49.........

greenbarn · January 18, 2017, 19:50:54 PM

I'll sit by the pool all day if the company is good and the drinks are free!!

CDNRatMan · January 18, 2017, 19:00:11 PM

Wow another slander on my good name......when have you ever heard of a Rat barking.....never.......as for bite I can do something better than bite....
KW I will save a spot for you at my Rendezvous, there are a number of really nice people saying they are coming, and then there are a few who said they are coming like Pilgrim and GB, but we can let them sit outside by the pool with the kids.......

greenbarn · January 18, 2017, 18:56:20 PM

Good to hear it was so easy. I'll have to admit, I doubted the relevancy of the oil priming issue when I first read it - good to see it really work first-hand. I have to think, for this oil pump system to be this finicky to maintain a prime, some engineer must have had his head in some deep-dark-damp hole when he designed this oil system, LOL...

So KW, you need to put it on your schedule, make arrangements, and reservations, to attend the upcoming Northern Drifter Rendezvous, so you can finally meet the illustrious, elusive Sir Ratman.... Pilgrim and I are planning to go. His (Ratman) bark is worse than his bite...

kw-retrorider · January 18, 2017, 17:45:49 PM

Backhanded....I beg to differ Ratman...you got credit for the initial diagnosis and leading everyone, including me, in the right direction...it's all good.

CDNRatMan · January 18, 2017, 17:19:22 PM

wow that was a backhanded comment there for sure, listen to Pilgrim, right and of course my idol GreenBarn, but I suggested it first but then I am north of the 49 line what can I know......ok.........I will forgive you this time.........I am going to go and tinker on my bike some more now and watch the hockey game.........

GreenBarn you are a superhero for sure, and what's his name Pilgrim ...he is ok for an old guy.......

kw-retrorider · January 18, 2017, 15:51:20 PM

Saved by the Forum again! All it needed was to be burped like a baby....go figure.

Pilgrim man, thanks for all the detail, but I took action before I saw your post, yet I have confirmed what you said without a doubt. Although Ratman mentioned the "burp" first, it was Greenbarn that made me give it a shot.

Wouldn't have believed it unless I saw with my own eyes. I knew enough not to screw with too much. The bike is too original and I have had no issues over the years. After I changed the oil and filter and started it, the light went out immediately....I mean immediately. Then went for a 30 mile ride....55 degrees in MD today.

I met both Pilgrim and Greenbarn at Drift In 2013 and have yet to meet the infamous Ratman....thanks guys for having my back.

By the way, this all started with a saddlebag install that would fit my laptop. These are alleged leatherlykes I bought for $35 on ebay after a good rubdown with leather conditioner. So learned more than I wanted to about the lube oil system, but the bag install seems to have come out alright....

Old Drifter · January 18, 2017, 10:24:12 AM

Great finnd and post Pilgrim! This could save kw-retrorider alot of grief.

Pilgrim · January 18, 2017, 06:08:45 AM

copied and pasted from another forum:

Loosen the oil filter until you see a little bit of oil seep out the bottom mounting surface and then start it and let it idle for about 5 seconds. You should feel the oil filter tighten up by itself and also see a little more oil seep out when this happens since the 800's have a hard time re-priming oil after a tip over and sometimes after an oil change. This will let the air escape and allow the motor to re-prime itself with oil and the light should go out after this happens. Then turn off the bike and tighten the oil filter again. Post back if you want a better explanation that one of the experts on here gave me recently but this should do it.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you run the bike like that until you do this. Mind you, the experts said that 800's are notorious for this phenomenon and so you having a Drifter fits this category.

If your water temp light is still on I would also try uncapping the reservoir cap and the servicing cap while it idles but only after you do the oil filter trick first. This might help fix the air cavitation situation created when you dropped it. You can also open the coolant drain just a little bit when you do this and that might help in the same manner as the oil filter trick. You don't need to open it much and just let a little tiny bit seep out and then tighten your drain and caps back up again. Hopefully your water temp light will be out by this time. If this doesn't work post back and someone else can help. Wish you success.

OP replied that this worked for him...

kw-retrorider · January 18, 2017, 03:54:41 AM

Thank you Mr. Greenbarn for your thoughts....the lube oil needing to be burped is certainly an outside the box thought.

As a prelim, both the coolant temp sensor and the oil pressure sensor look like they have never been touched and connections are intact. They are both in very protected locations...the temp sensor well inboard and under the fuel tank; while the oil pressure switch is on the left side of the bike....opposite the side it fell. That said, the itty bitty wire to the oil sender takes a wrap around the larger starter wire on the way to the switch so have to inspect it closely...as it lays hard up against the bottom of the left engine case...good place for a stray ground, but I don't suspect I will find anything.

My thoughts were to look at the wiring up at the indicator lights...for something loose (since I changed the instrument panel, but a long time ago).

Beyond that, it's due for an oil change, so I will see if it can burp itself in the process of a new filter and oil. Wouldn't hurt to rig a test oil pressure gauge either I suppose.

Again thanks for weighing in....will keep you guys posted...

greenbarn · January 17, 2017, 17:28:59 PM

I haven't checked the book yet either, but I read somewhere at some point that the 2 sensors share a circuit, so that if the oil light comes on, the temp light does too. This seems odd to me, but possible; engineers do what they want to. The explanation I saw was that if the OP goes low, they want both lights to get your attention. I also read something else that said the 800 Vulcans are bad about getting an air pocket in the oil system if tipped over, or sometimes when the oil filter is changed. This seems really peculiar to me - I rather tend to doubt it, but I have read it several places. I learned a long time ago to say "that can't be right", because every once in a while I see something that doesn't seem like it can be right - but it is, LOL.... Anyway, what I read was that the oil filter needed to be burped, to get the air pocket out -- again this seems like an unlikely problem, but you might look into it. I know it is quite common to have air pockets in cooling systems (many even have air bleeders to assist in the bleeding) but I've never (other than this) heard of an oil pump that was incapable of priming and "bleeding" itself.

But like Bucko said, better safe than sorry when it comes to OP.

kw-retrorider · January 17, 2017, 03:52:34 AM

Bucko - thanks for the input. This feels like something minor that just got out of place. Tracking down the sensors and their connections is a good start.

I will have to look at the wiring diagram to understand how the two warning lights relate to each other, if they do at all. Agree with you on how the sensors work...so don't expect that if I injured a sensor that it would "fail safe" and give you a warning light...but stranger things have happened.

Appreciate your thoughts.

Bucko · January 16, 2017, 22:39:42 PM

Without reaching for the service manual....

I think both of the 'sender switches' provide a 'ground' to indicate a fault (in this case, either no oil pressure or high temperature). The first thing I would do is ensure the sender connections (wires) have not shorted to the motor or the frame (as a result of the fall over and pickup).

PS: I would not run the engine until you get the oil lamp problem sorted out first. It may be that you have no oil pressure.

CDNRatMan · January 16, 2017, 20:36:59 PM

The wires under the left side cover are the same as in the headlight pod they are acc. wires.

I am just guessing at the oil level might need a burping, the rad I can see if an air bubble got moved around. But if we wait a bit and Troll comes on or someone smarter than us they will have the answer.

kw-retrorider · January 16, 2017, 18:04:09 PM

Used my existing saddlebag brackets.....so OR_Seedman off the hook

I did not open the radiator to burp it...but can....but how does that relate to the lube oil system, which I can't imagine you can put a bubble in....

I did find a thread about those two warning lights not working...had something to do with the left side cover...I pulled that off, to find two wires not connected to anything and not able to be connected to each other...ie same type of terminals. So nothing out of place except two wires that can't be connected to anything or themselves.

CDNRatMan · January 16, 2017, 17:16:56 PM

I realized it was bags nothing to do with the mounts.....perhaps he should buy new brackets from you.......

OR Seedman · January 16, 2017, 17:09:33 PM

HEY!!??

CDNRatMan · January 16, 2017, 15:32:26 PM

Going to have to do some reading on this for sure and get back to you.......

But after the hammering OR_Seedman gave me on another thread........did you buy the saddlebag mounts from him? If not then he is off the hook......

Did you check the rad levels or at least open it to "burp" it? Understanding the bike did not go over far but perhaps enough to create a bubble in both systems and you might need to "burp" them out.
Do not think we have a tip sensor on the 800.......

kw-retrorider · January 16, 2017, 14:58:14 PM

Under the heading of the last thing you touched is the problem....I'm sure I had something to do with this, but don't know what. First:
- have never had either of these warning lights come on or stay on, much less together
- there is oil and coolant at the proper levels
- last time I rode the bike all was normal.
Now for the me part....
- Installed another set of saddlebags today
- while installing the left side bag, I had a block of wood under the kickstand, so the bike as level...so I could get the saddle bag where I wanted it
- while I was fooling with the left side saddlebag, the bike fell over on to its right side on the engine guard...not hard, just went over.
- picked it up; saw that some coolant had spilled...very little.
- went back and completed the saddlebag install.

Decided to go out for a ride. It started normally....I warmed it up...didn't notice both warning lights were on until I after pulled out and was riding a few minutes. Fan did not come on ever.
Drove the bike about two miles, thinking what are the chances both systems have a problem...must be an electrical gremlin. Then it stalled as I came to a light. It started back up and I got it back home without incident. The stalling is probably a red herring, but it made me get back home. It didn't stall again.

So temp and oil warning lights do not extinguish when engine starts. From what I can see, no fuses for these individually...so any thoughts from the group? Much appreciated.