Electrical problem

[DC]

Thanks Troll.  I will pull the cover and check out the connections.

[Troll]

The relay is the under the right side cover, towards the rear and should have a pretty beefy cable attached. The relay also houses the main fuse. The starter motor is between the front of the engine and the lower part of the radiator. This design uses a relay for current switching, and a roller clutch on the starter that is constantly engaged, but freewheels when the engine is running...it has no "solenoid" in the automotive sense of the word. Check for loose main cable at the starter, and the relay,  but there is also a ground wire from the battery to the frame to the engine. If the ground cable is loose at either connection, you will get a significant power loss. Putting power from your battery with a jumper cable, directly into the terminal on the starter will get the motor to crank the engine. The starter relay does this for you at the push of  button

[greenbarn]

Not positive on the 1500.  On my 800 its in the front, under and behind the lower radiator mount, right next to the road - = subject to corrosion.  It looks like a small electric motor.

[DC]

It sounds like it might be a power connection problem.

Sounds like you most certainly have a connection problem.

If you have 14.5 running, then the battery is charging (i.e. your charging system is working).

If you have 12.5-13 V not running and/or disconnected, then that indicates a charged battery (but not necessarily a GOOD battery)

You need to check the connections on the starter.  You could have a loose wire, or corrosion problem.  Look for a connection that looks like it's been hot - discoloration, melted plastic, etc.

Dumb question, but how do I get to where that's connected?  Do I have to remove any side covers?

[greenbarn]

Say,....   what's the odds of a guy calling himself "DC", having a battery problem??

Must be a guy on a refrigerator forum going by "AC" having a wiring problem, I suppose...   

[greenbarn]

Sounds like you most certainly have a connection problem.

If you have 14.5 running, then the battery is charging (i.e. your charging system is working).

If you have 12.5-13 V not running and/or disconnected, then that indicates a charged battery (but not necessarily a GOOD battery)

You need to check the connections on the starter.  You could have a loose wire, or corrosion problem.  Look for a connection that looks like it's been hot - discoloration, melted plastic, etc.

[DC]

It's almost the same exact battery that was in there to begin with, spec'd as an upgrade to the stock battery.

The original was a Yuasa YTX20CH-BS.  The replacement was the Motorpsort version of the Yuasa. 

[chief]

 I'm assuming you purchased an appropriately spec'd battery.

If it was on the tender, it would have to be a massive parasitic power drain to exceed the charging capacity of the tender - or a problem with the connection. It sounds like it might be a power connection problem.

http://www.vulcandrifterriders.com/drifterparts.html

[DC]

So here's the latest . . . . .

The new battery was completely charged as of Friday.  Before I pulled the old battery out, I took some readings as follows:

OLD BATTERY

- Bike not running = 12.82v

- Bike running = 14.34v - 14.46v

- Disconnected from bike = 13.16v

Then I installed the new battery.

NEW BATTERY

- Bike running = 14.5v

After installing, I started it up without any click, click, click, and it was off and running.  So I took the bike for a good healthy ride, to give it some exercise.  Again, this was Friday.

Saturday I did not run the bike, but kept it on the Battery Tender Plus(tm) overnight.

Sunday morning, I go to take it for a ride.  Press the starter, then click, click, click.  It did not start.  Pressed it again, then a couple of clicks and it turned over fine.

So now it's not a battery problem?   

[kw-retrorider]

All good info above, but will add this:
- don't have pigtails for charging the battery in place, but agree they should be shielded(covered) when not in use, so they do not drain the battery.
- the easiest thing to do when you suspect the battery(and I do) is to try to charge it, like you did....after that, take it out and take it somewhere that they can put a load check on it....auto zone, battery warehouse, etc.
- while it's out...batteries are marked with date of manufacture...if it's older than you think...it's probably done....if it drops a cell (which it can do without warning), regardless of the reason..it's also done.
Look forward to a good result....

[chief]

The Battery Tender will charge AND store the battery, so you don't have to worry about overcharging etc. You can leave it on all the time if you want. That's what I do in the winter when there are  weeks between rides.

[DC]

Okay, I just found this on the Battery Tender site.

"In calendar year 1999, Deltran introduced the Battery Tender® Plus into the marketplace. The main reason was that many more AGM style lead acid batteries were being used in a variety of power sports engine start applications. Many of the answers to the following questions directed at the Batter Tender Plus battery charger also apply to the original Battery Tender® battery charger as well as other chargers from Deltran in the Battery Tender® product line."

So I should be fine with charging it on that.

I came home from the root canal and it was still charging. After having some relaxing beverages, I checked it again right before I turned in for the evening.  At that point, it was about 80% charged according to the blinking green light.  So I decided to just leave it on overnight.  This morning I checked on it, and it was fully charged.  So I pulled the power on the charger.  When I get home from work today, I'll pull the old battery, put the new one in, and hope for the best.

[DC]

It's not the voltage, per se that will kill the battery, it's amperage. The battery charger will only put out what the battery will accept. When I used a standard car charger for motorcycle batteries, I put a tail light bulb in series with the battery. It doesn't matter which terminal you choose, the bulb will act as a damper for the current. A side benefit is that the bulb will almost be out when the charge is complete....

I decided to put it on the Battery Tender Plus.  The label on the battery says to charge it 1.2-2 amps for 5-10 hours.   hmmm . . . kinda broad range there.  I put it on last night until I had to go to bed.  I didn't want to leave it on overnight.  So when I took it off, after 4 hours, the red light was steady and the green light was blinking.  When I get home from work today, I'll put it on the tender to charge again.  Then I have to go out to the butcher for my follow up  root canal appointment.  Sorry, I meant dentist..  By the time I get back, the battery should be fully charged.  We'll see what happens.

I'm going to take readings from the old battery.  First, just sitting there, then with the bike running, if the bike will even start again.  Then I'll pull it and put the new battery in and we'll see what happens.  This is all assuming I'm in a sane state after this second root canal appointment.  The first one didn't go so well.  I've had a few of them in the past, and they were tolerable, but this last one, last month, was over the top.  So I'm telling the guy to gas me this time.  I told him last time when things were going horribly wrong half way through, when he hit an unknown raw exposed nerve that I should have been gassed ahead of time.

[DC]

DC if you had a double twist 'stach this would not have happened......

I'm guessing I would be able to use the 'stachy as a shunt.  I'm thinking when I glue on my Fu-Manchu, I can hook the charging cables to either side, just sit there in the lounge chair, and charge myself up for the day.

[CDNRatMan]

   DC if you had a double twist 'stach this would not have happened......

[49Reo]

It's not the voltage, per se that will kill the battery, it's amperage. The battery charger will only put out what the battery will accept. When I used a standard car charger for motorcycle batteries, I put a tail light bulb in series with the battery. It doesn't matter which terminal you choose, the bulb will act as a damper for the current. A side benefit is that the bulb will almost be out when the charge is complete....

......now that's good intel....learn something new every day.

[Troll]

It's not the voltage, per se that will kill the battery, it's amperage. The battery charger will only put out what the battery will accept. When I used a standard car charger for motorcycle batteries, I put a tail light bulb in series with the battery. It doesn't matter which terminal you choose, the bulb will act as a damper for the current. A side benefit is that the bulb will almost be out when the charge is complete....

[DC]

The battery arrived today.  I'm assuming it needs to be charged, but I have not put it on the charger yet.  I'm reading that you need to have an AGM type charger or the higher charging voltages on non-AGM chargers )14.2v) will toast one of these batteries, or at least reduce the longevity.  So now are we saying my Diehard 71222 charger is not good for this?  Mine is the older 71222 without the AGM setting.  The new ones come with that.

I also have a Battery Tender Plus and in the FAQ it says it will initially attempt a charge at 14.5v.

So now I have to go out and buy an AGM charger?  What else do I have to do?  File some forms in triplicate, pat my head and rub my belly at the same time as I am walking and chewing gum?  Why so complicated?  I'm just trying to put a new battery in.

[DC]

I know I wired it according to the instructions.  So it should be good then.  I guess that's not the problem.

The new battery should arrive tomorrow.

[49Reo]

Your battery tender lead should should have the hot shielded, and the ground bare;(coming from the battery), the lead from the tender should be the opposite. It should never short out on the bike if it is done this way, other than wires rubbing through on  the bike. However, it does sound like a battery or loose lead to me. Good luck with it, and keep us posted.

[John Hopkins]

Nobody has mentioned this so I will

You discovered that one of the leads to the battery tender connection was bared and possibly shorting somewhere..This could have caused the battery to drain enough to damage it and that might be the only thing to worry about but..The short could have damaged your battery tender so that it no longer works..or even worse if it has damaged the rectifier in the tender it may put out an a/c voltage instead of dc and this will ruin the new battery very quickly..

Although battery tenders do a good job of maintaining a battery over the winter months and for people who don't use their bikes very often, I find a cheap 4 amp car battery charger very handy for those times you need a full charge fairly quickly..I should point out that I keep a $10 DIGITAL multimeter handy and if I have a battery problem I check the dc voltage across the battery with the engine running, I expect to see at least 13v dc which is a few millivolts volts more than I would expect from a good battery with the engine off..by increasing the revs slowly I would expect that to rise to 14v but never more than 14.8v..

We spend a lot of money on these bikes so spending a few dollars on tools and test equipment seems a good idea to me..

John.

[dakuhosu]

I got it from the local dealer. He had the oem, the next amp capacity up in the oem (YUASA) and the standard and upgrade batteries in a "generic" brand, like parts unlimited house brand. They all had the same warranty..one year, so it came down to price. I bought the uprated battery but the parts unlimited brand because it was significantly cheaper than the Yuasa in the oem capacity. All were AGM and all were probably made in the same shed in China, so why not save some money. I'm thinking it was about $70....

You forgot to mention hand made!

[DC]

Okay, thanks.  I just ordered this one . . . MotoCross(by Yuasa) High Performance AGM Battery - USPS Priority Mail FRB-1.  Should be here in a couple of days.

[Troll]

Was it the 270 CCA battery?  What's a good place to get it from online?

I got it from the local dealer. He had the oem, the next amp capacity up in the oem (YUASA) and the standard and upgrade batteries in a "generic" brand, like parts unlimited house brand. They all had the same warranty..one year, so it came down to price. I bought the uprated battery but the parts unlimited brand because it was significantly cheaper than the Yuasa in the oem capacity. All were AGM and all were probably made in the same shed in China, so why not save some money. I'm thinking it was about $70....

[greenbarn]

Same thing mine did as well.  You either have a battery problem, starter problem or wiring problem.  Most likely battery as others have said.  Do you have a volt meter?  The battery, when charged should have over 12 volts, nearly 13.  When you put a load on it (i.e. try to start the bike), the voltage will drop a bit, but it should not drop very much.  You need a load tester to do an exact test - the "motor cranking" test is pretty variable, but it probably shouldn't drop below 9-10V.  If it drops way below that, the battery is bad.  Also, if the charge doesn't come right back up to at least 11 1/2 or 12 volts, then it's bad.

Starter solenoids also act that way- click-click- then maybe they'll start.  However, I've not heard a lot of problems with these Kaw starters so I'd tend to think the battery is more likely.  Every battery eventually goes bad.

Wiring issues will not be nearly as common on these as on cars.  Corrosion is the culprit, usually on the wiring going to the solenoid, and it's usually caused by road salt, which isn't nearly the issue as on cars.

I think any of the on-line bike stores should have a battery.  I'm partial to Interstate, but the originals Japanese batteries are very good.  I'm not nuts about Walmart or parts-store batteries.  They're usually cheaper, but they are a cheaply made battery.