Another won't start (Solved)

[DC]

Some of you guys have the patience of a saint.  I would have had tools sprayed around in a three block radius trying to fix something like that.

[John Hopkins]

Glad you fixed it..If the problem persists buying a new battery might not be such a bad idea..

John.

[Troll]

    This is one of those problems that you have to see to trouble shoot. I was suspecting a bad ground, especially since you had the engine out to do all the other work. The ground lead on the back of the engine grounds not only the engine, but the rest of the electricals to the frame. The "short" you mentioned is not a short, but an attempt by the battery to return voltage through dead air. WAY BACK WHEN, when cars had lead top post batteries, this kind of thing was pretty common. Car runs, shut it off, go to restart, and it goes snap and it's all dead...wiggle the neg. post clamp and all's well again, until  the next time...

[drifter-paul]

Thanks John, Testpilot.

I removed the starter motor and had it tested. I took the fuse block  apart and inspected both sides of the circuit board, and all fuses - everything fine. Put it back together and it  started 

Rode it a short distance and parked. Later that cold rainy night it would not start - turning over but not catching .

Removed the battery and it charged up quickly. Started bike. Tested it running and it puts out 14V approx.

Next attempt at starting it wouldn't . Repeated fuse checking and on next attempt , saw an arc from the negative terminal to the frame rail, and all electrics dead. Waited and attempted to restart, having moved battery  1/4 further from frame rail. This time it arced to the plastic of the battery (parallel to the frame line now).

Removed the earth lead and 400 sandpapered both ends, and the engine face mount point. Placed a 1/8 " thick piece of rubber around the negative terminal, and a rubber grommet under the metal bracket that holds the battery and down-sensor in place. It can't move at all now. She starts no problem now.

Curiously the shorting did not blow any fuses     I will run it for  a week or so, and if I have no problems, will try it without the 1/8' rubber "condom".

Thanks for your help.

[testpilot]

Disconnect the battery. Run jumper cables from car battery to bike battery cables without car running. If it all works OK, replace the battery.

[John Hopkins]

Thanks,

Putting finger on solenoid (1 of 4 electrical components on right side of battery box - battery box has plastic tangs for sliding the rubber mounts onto, and each component has it's own rubber mount to sit in) . The noise is a bit like an arc welder and the vibration is fast - like chattering teeth.

Maybe I have two dud solenoids in a row    Will test your suggestions, and get an electric-minded friend to run his ohm meter over it.

ok just to test the solenoid bridge the two wires with a thick jumper cable or even a pair of grips the bike should turn over without the bssst noise...I don't think you have a faulty solenoid...

Now the interesting part..

disconnect the battery and remove the fuse box from the rubber mount..it will have two connectors plugged into it..unlock these from the lock lug with a screwdriver and pull them out..now examine both connectors for burn marks..if they are good look at the fusebox..on the back are four small philips screws, remove them this will expose the back of the circuit board that carries the fuses and one or two relays..the Bssstt noise was the circuit board burning around one of those relays try to find another good fuse panel from the scrap yard with exactly the same one or two relays..be careful they made several different ones..If you discover the burning and cant find another fuseboard post a couple of good photos here and I will tell you how to repair it..

John.

[drifter-paul]

Thanks,

Putting finger on solenoid (1 of 4 electrical components on right side of battery box - battery box has plastic tangs for sliding the rubber mounts onto, and each component has it's own rubber mount to sit in) . The noise is a bit like an arc welder and the vibration is fast - like chattering teeth.

Maybe I have two dud solenoids in a row    Will test your suggestions, and get an electric-minded friend to run his ohm meter over it.

[John Hopkins]

 beee -zittttd again - you can feel the vibration of the solenoid throwing and re-setting when you place your finger on the unit.

I'm not sure I understand this bit...You seem to be on top of most of this but..

are you putting your finger on the starter solenoid or the starter..

The starter solenoid or starter relay is under the seat or inside the right cover..depending on model..

If the solenoid is making that noise it is likely loose or has a loose connection, or it is poorly mounted and the noise is an arc to ground..

you can bypass the solenoid by running a thick wire directly to the starter motor from the battery +, this will cause the starter motor to run and eliminate all the rest of the circuit...don't leave it running for more than a second or two...

you don't need the ignition on...if it grinds or doesnt sound good you have a fault at the starter motor or the gears it connects to..

If that is ok..move back to the solenoid and bridge the two thick wires, that should do the same thing..

If it doesn't you have a loose wire from the solenoid to the starter motor or the battery to the solenoid.

I forgot to mention..this assumes the battery is good and the battery connections are both clean and tight.

John.

[drifter-paul]

Read the recent "won't start" topic, but I don't think it applies here.

After a year (camshaft, camchains/sprockets, MS clutch, fork oil, etc and a new paint job and pinstripping), my '99 1500 (140K) is back on the road (was).

Took it for a few rides, various short distances and different days, and then one 200 mile one. Had a beer and half hour later decided to go out again. Got 100 yards and she died. Brake lights/horn/indicators work. Tried starting again - console lights work as per normal, on then off - wait till console lights finished, then hit starter. Got a bee - zitttt noise from starter solenoid , so replaced that (with a second hand unit). She ran for a week  than beee -zittttd again - you can feel the vibration of the solenoid throwing and re-setting when you place your finger on the unit.

Checked grounds for wires -  clean , unpainted, connected and tight, no visible shorts.

Took starter motor out of m/c and auto electrician tested it - fine. He suggested bypass testing of existing wiring.

I was hoping it was a poor ground, or worn components in the starter, aggravated by sitting for a year.

Now I'm at a loss.

P.S. You don't need to drain the radiator to get the starter motor out. Remove the starter motor wire, and the single-wire switch on bottom of radiator. Undo two bolts on left holding starter in place, insert blade screwdriver on right side of starter and wiggle/pry to the left - settle starter motor on engine block/radiator. Undo bolt holding top of radiator to frame, move 1'' forward and up until s/motor drops into hand of assistant..