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Author Topic: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles  (Read 620 times)

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moto

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Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« on: July 14, 2017, 10:51:19 AM »

If I change my Drifter exhaust to V&H Longshots with Quiet baffles;

- do I must to buy Powercommander ?
- do I must to adjust fuel mixture ?
- are these pipes very loud with Quiet baffless installed

thanks
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AZCaveman

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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2017, 12:06:11 PM »

If no other changes..Intake etc.  Then no, your stock computer will adapt just fine.
QUIET?   Yes fairly quiet, yet louder than stock as the goat bladder actually does a significant amount of quieting. and removal with raise sound.
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moto

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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2017, 23:10:25 PM »

If no other changes..Intake etc.  Then no, your stock computer will adapt just fine.
QUIET?   Yes fairly quiet, yet louder than stock as the goat bladder actually does a significant amount of quieting. and removal with raise sound.

Ok, thanks, but what about valves, can I burn my valves if I put V&H without adjusting mixtures?
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AZCaveman

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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2017, 15:03:18 PM »

No, the stock computer will add more fuel as needed.
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moto

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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2017, 01:43:43 AM »

No, the stock computer will add more fuel as needed.
Hmm.. is that's  true? Because V&H sell Powercommader kits also Drifter.

Do you have technigal specification or proof to show me of that Drifter automatic fuel feeding?
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Troll

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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2017, 08:22:51 AM »

In a word, no, it will not change fuel delivery to compensate for changes. The fuel delivery system, and ignition timing are pre-mapped, and cannot be changed. The only thing you can do is add a fuel "tuner" that will make the engine run richer mixtures under certain circumstances. To be able to adjust itself, the system would require at least a 32 bit computer and a lambda sensor in addition to what it already has. Do not worry about valve and or fuel problems with your change to an open exhaust. The systems are preprogrammed  rich enough that it won't make any difference. I'm running a fairly open Cobra exhaust and my own design free flowing air intake system.  I have plenty of power and at 113,000 miles  (182,000 Km) I have had ZERO problems. I went from an average of 39 mpg to 45 mpg, and sometimes as much as 52 mpg with my modifications. Here's an example fuel map and the cell structure of the programming. As you can see, nothing under 3,000 rpm is accessible, which is where 99% of your riding is done.
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moto

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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2017, 10:40:46 AM »

In a word, no, it will not change fuel delivery to compensate for changes. The fuel delivery system, and ignition timing are pre-mapped, and cannot be changed. The only thing you can do is add a fuel "tuner" that will make the engine run richer mixtures under certain circumstances. To be able to adjust itself, the system would require at least a 32 bit computer and a lambda sensor in addition to what it already has. Do not worry about valve and or fuel problems with your change to an open exhaust. The systems are preprogrammed  rich enough that it won't make any difference. I'm running a fairly open Cobra exhaust and my own design free flowing air intake system.  I have plenty of power and at 113,000 miles  (182,000 Km) I have had ZERO problems. I went from an average of 39 mpg to 45 mpg, and sometimes as much as 52 mpg with my modifications. Here's an example fuel map and the cell structure of the programming. As you can see, nothing under 3,000 rpm is accessible, which is where 99% of your riding is done.

Wow! Now i know more better these science, thanks!
BTW, where is this computer and lambda sensor in bike?
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Troll

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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2017, 13:11:03 PM »

Your Drifter does not have a lambda (O2) sensor. It runs mapped fuel delivery. On the newer bikes, the lambda sensor is in the exhaust pipe. All the newer ones have one because of stricter emissions standards. Cars have had them since 1981. The ECU, or computer, on your bike is behind the left frame cover, under the seat. If you remove the seat, you will see a black box with 3 plugs in it, next to the battery it's about the same length as the battery, but only about 30 mm thick
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moto

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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2017, 14:36:16 PM »

Your Drifter does not have a lambda (O2) sensor. It runs mapped fuel delivery. On the newer bikes, the lambda sensor is in the exhaust pipe. All the newer ones have one because of stricter emissions standards. Cars have had them since 1981. The ECU, or computer, on your bike is behind the left frame cover, under the seat. If you remove the seat, you will see a black box with 3 plugs in it, next to the battery it's about the same length as the battery, but only about 30 mm thick

Ok, so if I change these stock pipes to V&H Longshots, I don't need anything else what I must to install or change, and my valves don't burn,
not even air intake?
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AZCaveman

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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2017, 15:12:59 PM »

I have never experienced any issue with a simple exhaust change on several Drifters I work on, maintain or own.  The computer does have the ability to richen or lean even without the Lam sensor.
Which is why stock Drifters run well from sea level on up to the mountains.   And yes they are programmed to run a bit rich like Troll pointed out. If you can afford a Power-commander  than by all means get one.  But riding with the stock one has never caused any problems with valves etc.  and if your planning to get one but have to wait a bit for whatever reason.  It will not stop you from enjoying your bike in the meantime.  Just my humble opinion.

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Troll

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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2017, 15:16:28 PM »

The MAP sensor, the BARO sensor and the IAT sensor make the changes. At sea level, I get around 45 mpg, but at 7000' I get over 50...that is the action of the BARO sensor sending fuel delivery into a different pre-programmed cell.  It measures atmospheric pressure and will lean out the mixture as the pressure decreases, since high altitude air has less oxygen in it. The value it uses is hard coded into the read only memory of the computer. Way back about 1982 or so, there were special high altitude versions of both programming and hardware for cars operated about 4000'...In 1982, the computers were not very sophisticated, but they didn't need to be. The emissions requirements were pretty easy to meet. That has all changed. Euro3  specs are quite tight...just look at what VW did to try and cheat. The computer could sense when it was being tested, and made a few changes that would guarantee that the car would pass testing, but it would then revert back to normal operation after the testing was done....Older systems like ours are very simple. They are not much different than the BOSCH Jetronic  system installed in 1967 VW variants.. That, too was an open loop, mapped system. This was my specialty at work for over 40 years....
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moto

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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2017, 01:09:32 AM »

Thanks guys!!!

So, what about noise. I have these V&H pipes in Quiet Bafflers.
How much Quiet Bafflers are quieter than V&H stock bafflers?
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AZCaveman

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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2017, 07:42:17 AM »

I defer to your Expertise.  And thanks for the education.  Even Old farts can still learn.
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chief

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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2017, 12:58:53 PM »

MOST people who change out only their pipes don't require the addition of a FI box. BUT, that depends upon the pipes. My Big Willys did require I add a Cobra box to prevent decel backfiring etc. If you mess with the air box AND change the pipes you will need to add the FI box. I got the cobra box because it didn't require new mapping and has pots to tweak the system. I worked great for me out of the box. I'd try it without the box first... if you get decel popping, etc then go with one of the add-on FI boxes.
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--Jerry S--

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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2017, 20:57:59 PM »

How does one know if the previous owner installed a power commander as stated and gave me reciept.  I'm sure it is installed but I do not know where it would be located. Mine has the long shots. 
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CDNRatMan

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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2017, 22:11:26 PM »

 When did you get the 800? Inquiring minds want to know or did you just add that because you are thinking about it.....
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moto

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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2017, 02:04:09 AM »

How does one know if the previous owner installed a power commander as stated and gave me reciept.  I'm sure it is installed but I do not know where it would be located. Mine has the long shots.

That is good question! So anyone knows; where powercommander or Dynojet is located on bike??
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moto

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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2017, 02:09:29 AM »

That is good question! So anyone knows; where powercommander or Dynojet is located on bike??
This pic shows one good place of it.

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drifter-paul

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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2017, 05:09:33 AM »

Chief, Troll
So any Cobra Fi2000 will do, it just means if it's not specified for your model, you need to tune it ? I see one for a Suzuki Boulevard M109R for $160 - including free (3 weeks) to ship to Australia. This one is called tripot (and supposedly easier to fit) yet another version says works with OEM, are these easier to fit to a Drifter. Is one model - 2000/2000R/2000 Tri pot easier to fit than another ? I can change/solder connectors etc, but might as well start with the easiest one. The Power pro model sounds flash, but for the price(s) it's out of my range.   
Many Thanks  :)
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--Jerry S--

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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2017, 07:56:06 AM »

When did you get the 800? Inquiring minds want to know or did you just add that because you are thinking about it.....

The receipt pile had a power commander as being installed on the 1500. I will go check to see if I see it.

 The 1999 - 800 we pick up the 28th then head to our friends NC mountain top home for a week.

I never thought I would own four bikes.  I have issues!

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--Jerry S--

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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2017, 10:06:23 AM »

It do not see a power commander behind side covers and not that it matters to me but here is one of the many very documented receipts given to me when I picked up the bike and it was only a 4600 or so mile bike.  The cobra pipe and k and n mentioned was part of the deal as well and I have this pipe. Where would the power commander be.  Any other place to put it?


http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag259/EBeybuzzard/IMG_1216_zpsgasdkbvf.jpg
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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2017, 12:28:51 PM »

It do not see a power commander behind side covers and not that it matters to me but here is one of the many very documented receipts given to me when I picked up the bike and it was only a 4600 or so mile bike.  The cobra pipe and k and n mentioned was part of the deal as well and I have this pipe. Where would the power commander be.  Any other place to put it?


http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag259/EBeybuzzard/IMG_1216_zpsgasdkbvf.jpg

Look under both side covers and inside the headlight bucket. Other than that, your guess is as good as mine.
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Gene

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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2017, 14:15:03 PM »

I need to know where the wires go so I can back track 
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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2017, 08:58:43 AM »

Checked under tank and no power commander.  Looks like the ticket did not have labor.  Maybe he never put it on.  Oh well. 
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moto

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Re: Vance & Hines Longshots with Quiet baffles
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2017, 11:54:12 AM »

No any powercommander to mine bike.

My bike past owner say that when he install V&H pipes, he never needs any Powercommander to it.
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